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What do I believe....?
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Mystic Power
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:54 pm    Post subject: What do I believe....? Reply with quote

I posted this over at the Hawai'i forum, so if you've already labored through it.... Laughing

What do I believe....?

Essentially, to the best of my human ability, nothing. Zip. Nada. Zero. Zilch. Nothing.

The above is a very simple statement which will only take me several paragraphs to explain:

I love the idea in Kevin Smith's movie DOGMA where Chris Rock's angelic character asks, "Why have beliefs? Why not just have ideas?"


That really speaks to me. I find, often, that beliefs can be quite limiting, especially the religious kind. Ideas, however, can be infinite and empowering.

I like this idea:

I walk out into the ocean with a glass. I dip the glass into the ocean and what I've got is a glass-of-ocean. It's not THE ocean, but it is, basically the same stuff.

So my idea is, that we are that. Glasses or, as I prefer, Chalices of god-stuff. Made of the exact same "stuff."

The idea, then, is that we are, each, made of god-stuff that is both within us and extends outward and beyond us.

There is a vastness beyond my personal identity, yet I contain it all.

I embrace the idea that god/dess/All-That-Is is subjectively experiencing itSELF through us. It is looking out upon itSELF, which is all of creation, and experiencing itSELF from a zillion different perspectives, experiences and points-of-view.

There is, then, no separation between "god" and ourselves, for we are and have always been, ONE. We have not fallen from grace. There is no reconciliaton nor atonement to be made. We are not victims of original sin.

We simply are what we are. God experiencing itSELF as us and through us.
We can act at a high vibrational energy level or a low vibrational energy level. But we simply are what we are.

Why does IT (god/dess/All-That-Is) do this...over and over and over again throughout all of eternity/infinity...? Because it is FACINATING.

This, then, is a summation of my "beliefs" or remarkable lack thereof. I like the term Reality Model.

I've expressed this here in order to be better understood by you, my beloved brothers and sisters.

It is not intended to proselytize or to convert. As always, your mileage may vary.

...or, to put it another way:

I am THAT
and YOU are THAT
and HE is THAT
and SHE is THAT
and IT is THAT
and that is that!

Brightest Blissings,
Ben Power
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Ferre
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess we share some non-believe. Smile
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machete
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That´s a cool idea, to have ideas instead of beliefs. Do you believe in your ideas? If so, I think you believe in something, in you, and that is the best thing to do to that. Don´t you think that? What is your idea about that? Is that good? rofl
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

machete wrote:
I think you believe in something, in you, and that is the best thing to do to that. Don´t you think that?


I am but the product of your imagination. I did not exist until you turned your attention toward me, and I shall cease to exist as soon as you turn your attention away.

machete wrote:
What is your idea about that? Is that good? rofl


It simply is what it is.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you believe in your ideas or not? Do you exist in your imagination but not in mine? So if you don´t exist I am talking to spirits or something. What do you believe about you if you say you don´t exist? I believe you exist, what do you think, do you exist for yourself? Besides something being good or bad; I agree that it just is the way it is. Do you believe in your ideas? Confused


Peace.
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Klark420
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am but the product of your imagination. I did not exist until you turned your attention toward me, and I shall cease to exist as soon as you turn your attention away.


Do you/I/we exist when we are all by our selves, or do we cease to exist untill we are noticed again? There are times when I feel more noticed when I am alone, or is that when we are closest to THAT which we are made of because that is when we feel its presence the most.

I do like the idea of being a chalice of god/buddha/yawee, but I perfer the term grail. That means we are all the savior, we are all children of god.
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Mystic Power
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is a belief, but a rigidly held opinion?

machete wrote:
So you believe in your ideas or not?


I see no point in holding a rigidly held opinion about my ideas. They are simply ideas. If I were to form rigidly held opinions concerning the "rightness" of my ideas, where would be the room for growth...? ...for personal evolution...? ....for learning and forward movement...?

To hold such rigidly held opinions would be rather limiting, wouldn't it? I feel more strongly about some of my ideas, than others...but it would be foolish to limit myself, rigidly.

It is much easier to drop an idea which has become faulty than it is for most folks to drop faulty, limiting beliefs.

machete wrote:
Do you exist in your imagination but not in mine?


Laughing To answer that one would take a lot more time than I'm willing to spend. I am, though, interested in your ideas about such. What are your ideas about the nature of reality?

machete wrote:
So if you don´t exist I am talking to spirits or something. What do you believe about you if you say you don´t exist? I believe you exist, what do you think, do you exist for yourself?


Interesting ideas. So far as I can determine, I have never not existed. My existence, though, was not a significant part of your subjective reality, until you turned your attention toward it. Does that make sense?

machete wrote:
Do you believe in your ideas? Confused


What, exactly, does that mean to you?

Brightest Blissings,
Ben
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Mystic Power
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am but the product of your imagination. I did not exist until you turned your attention toward me, and I shall cease to exist as soon as you turn your attention away.


Klark420 wrote:
[Do you/I/we exist when we are all by our selves, or do we cease to exist untill we are noticed again? There are times when I feel more noticed when I am alone, or is that when we are closest to THAT which we are made of because that is when we feel its presence the most.


I think it's all highly subjective...and that the nature of personal reality, itself, is subjective. I feel closer to Source when alone, too.

I was, at least consciously, unaware of your existence until I joined this forum...you, however, were quite aware of....you. Very subjective.

Klark420 wrote:
[I do like the idea of being a chalice of god/buddha/yawee, but I perfer the term grail. That means we are all the savior, we are all children of god.


I like that idea. Grail is a good metaphor. I went with chalice because of my fondness for goddess spirituality, but Grail holds a lot of meaning in the Christian mythos as well. The ocean refuses no river.

I hope no one takes offense at the term "mythos" ... all paths are valid, as I see it. It makes a lot of sense for us to be an interfaith ministry.

Brightest Blissings,
Ben
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mystic Power wrote:
I hope no one takes offense at the term "mythos" ... all paths are valid, as I see it. It makes a lot of sense for us to be an interfaith ministry.


Quote:
"Myth is the secret opening through which the inexhaustible energies of the cosmos pour into human manifestation..." (Joseph Campbell, >>>Hero with a Thousand Faces<<<)


Interfaith ministry sounds good and makes sense to me also and seems instrumental to our defense being based on religious freedom.
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Mystic Power
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ferre wrote:
I guess we share some non-believe. Smile


Laughing Yes. Life seems less stressful that way. Laughing

------------------------------------------------------------------

Romadon wrote:
"Myth is the secret opening through which the inexhaustible energies of the cosmos pour into human manifestation..." (Joseph Campbell, >>>Hero with a Thousand Faces<<<)


I LOVE Josheph Campbell. The PBS series he did with Bill Moyers just prior to his death was great. Campbell's follow your bliss is where I got my...

Brightest Blissings,
Ben
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I kinda feel like ideas can be shared but beliefs are more personal and meant more for the person who owns them. I think a lot of people try and force their beliefs on others because either they themselves feel inadequate or they are just lazy and refuse to do what it takes to live up to their own beliefs and want someone else to carry their load and responsibilities for them.

Or maybe they are only looking for moral support or have lost their way and are crying for help.

Either way they should know better than to try and force other's to live by their rules just because they have failed to do so or even worse, create unjust laws that target the weaknesses of others in order to justify their own inadequacies.

I have the idea that a lot opf people are either to proud to admit that they have weaknesses or are just afraid to talk about it. Maybe I'm a little off subject now but I think it all relates somehow.


Last edited by Romadon on Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now I have to believe in something. Don't know what it is, but it is the only thing going to get me through the next few days.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a lot of people confuse responsibility with belief. Like, maybe I don't believe in taxes but am forced to take responsibility for them anyway Evil or Very Mad.

If I only had myself to look out for I would be footloose and fancy free and hope to be so someday. Smile

I guess that's what I get for not carrying my load or bearing my own burden when I was young. Now I'm just an old sick basturd with hell to pay. Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmmmm!

Well, when I asked if you believed or not in your ideas I wanted to know if you were true to your ideas. As you say a belief is a rigid held opinion, and you can change ideas but not believes that easy, I think it is just a matter of semantics or grammar or whatever you want to call it, if you want to change what you think you can change it, its the same if you call it a belief or an idea. I think you believe in no beliefs, or you have the idea about it. It´s kind the same thing.

I have to say that yeah, you didn´t exist until I knew you where around. Even now I´m questiong myself about your existence. About my ideas about the nature of reality Rolling Eyes , well, you got me there, I´ve never thought about it. I think reality is just what it is, I wasn´t even interested on thinking about something that might not make any difference about anything in particular in my life; however, you got me wondering now. Cool
That´s a tough question, when I´ve had enough thinking about it I will let you know. (You won this time Embarassed lol)

Peace brother.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

machete wrote:
(You won this time Embarassed lol)

Peace brother.


Laughing There wasn't any competition, so everyone's a winner. Mr. Rogers likes us just the way we are.

I'm looking forward to your ideas, though. Ideas are interesting.

Brightest Blissings,
Ben
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