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Nachtschattenreich
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 509
Location: Franconia, Germany, Europe, Old World

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm.

By joining the THC Ministry, did I join a religion?

My idea is that I joined a platform where we agree on the value of the sacred plants, while everybody continues to have his or her own religion or lack thereof.

And I do not like the idea that it would need another board on another domain just because there is a topic that is interesting to some but not to others. Most individuals do not have the time to keep track with still another board, and may be forced to chose between one and the other. In the case that there is a topic which is offtopic in all the existing categories of this forum, why not simply add a new category?

E.g. something like "Scripture and Exegesis - the religions of the book, how they see each other, the sacred plants and civilisation" would IMHO well fit into the "Religion and the Herb" section.
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 7140
Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nachtschattenreich wrote:
Hmmm.

By joining the THC Ministry, did I join a religion?


Yes, You did. THC Ministry is an independent religion.

It might not comply with the abrahamic concept of a religion which you personally are familair with but that's because it is not an abrahamic religion. Religions do not need to comply to abrahamic standarts to be 'recognized' as such, although many people have this misconception.

Me thinks you just put the nail on the head. Some people do not understand they joined "another' religion than the one they already adopted earlyer in their lives, and cannot respect our religion enough to have the decency to refrein from thumping their own religion in our community.
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reverendquenzer
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Tacoma, WA

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you not integrate your prior beliefs into the religion this ministry upholds?
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Rev. Steven Wilson
Shaman
Shaman


Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 296
Location: Columbia Basin, Pacific NW, USA

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well "I" don't. You can do anything you like except evangilizeing on this fourm. Read the Mandates here. http://www.thc-ministry.net/cannabis-sacrament.htm Do you fit into them? Would you like to?

Read the mission statement here. http://www.thc-ministry.net/home.htm can you adhear to it? Do you want to?

Although I wish a change from dogma to Evangilizing in this part would happen. But that's just me, and I don't bitch about it or let it drive me away.

Quote:
We are free of dogma, and so must our members be, too. No preaching or attempts to “save-the-lost,” please.

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prntrkmt
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 515
Location: southern California

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ferre wrote:
Nachtschattenreich wrote:
Hmmm.

By joining the THC Ministry, did I join a religion?


Yes, You did. THC Ministry is an independent religion.

It might not comply with the Abrahamic concept of a religion which you personally are familiar with but that's because it is not an Abrahamic religion. Religions do not need to comply to Abrahamic standarts to be 'recognized' as such, although many people have this misconception.

Me thinks you just put the nail on the head. Some people do not understand they joined "another' religion than the one they already adopted earlier in their lives, and cannot respect our religion enough to have the decency to refrain from thumping their own religion in our community.


You may want to move my reply (and possibly related comments) to a new thread.

One of the major concepts of Abrahamic religions is absolute exclusivity. A person can only belong to one religion, can only worship one god, can only subscribe to one set of beliefs.

This was a stumbling block to the first Wiccan religion to be officially recognized by the IRS -- because the IRS set standards that the religion MUST be exclusive and that none of the members could belong to any other religion. The CoC won against the IRS because this requirement was a violation of the 1st amendment establishment of religion clause.

This requirement was also repeated in the infamous Meyers decision, where the appeals court expanded the original IRS list of seven requirements to a list of 14 requirements (and three additional questions), even though the U.S. Supreme Court has already against the IRS's seven requirements (the IRS gets aroudn the Supreme Court ruling by changing their 7 requirements to 7 "suggestions").

Most of the world's religions are NON-EXCLUSIVE.

My own religion, the ancient Egyptian or Kemetic, specifically distinguished between the central religion and the family or personal religion. Almost everyone had at least two religions -- whatever was the religion of the Pharaoh and whatever religion the family had practiced (or in some cases a personal indivudal religion).

Several of the most important deities in the Kemetic religion came from Africa and Asia. For example, Bes was originally a Pygmy God. Baal or Bel (as in Beltaine) was from the Palestinians. Ishtar was originally from the Sumerians.

During the Hellenic period there were several combined deities, such as the combination of Artemis and Bast, the combiantion of Zeus and Set, etc.

It may be my own persnal biases, but I strongly object to the U.S. federal court claim that humans are only allowed to have one religion. I welcome anyone to share my religion and simultaneously keep their own religion.
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David
Bard
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Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Posts: 1188

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prntrkmt,

Everytime you come here I feel like a member of your religion, your teachings are limitless.
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RogerChristie
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 1062
Location: Hilo, Kingdom of Hawai'i

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Well said, David Reply with quote

David wrote,

"Prntrkmt,

Everytime you come here I feel like a member of your religion, your teachings are limitless."

I agree. Your posts are really interesting, well mannered and thoughtful. I want to visit the religion and culture you know so much about. Thanks for being here and participating with us.

All the best,

Roger


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RogerChristie
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 1062
Location: Hilo, Kingdom of Hawai'i

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: That's a new awareness to me. Thanks! Reply with quote

Ferre wrote, "It might not comply with the Abrahamic concept of a religion which you personally are familiar with but that's because it is not an Abrahamic religion. Religions do not need to comply to Abrahamic standards to be 'recognized' as such, although many people have this misconception."

Sounds good.

Ferre wrote, "Me thinks you just put the nail on the head. Some people do not understand they joined "another' religion than the one they already adopted earlier in their lives, and cannot respect our religion enough to have the decency to refrain from thumping their own religion in our community."

Sounds good.


Prntrkmt wrote, "One of the major concepts of Abrahamic religions is absolute exclusivity. A person can only belong to one religion, can only worship one god, can only subscribe to one set of beliefs."

That's very informative!!! No wonder we've been having troubles here. Nail on the head is right. I didn't realize this til now. All of our Abrahamic members are in conflict with the THC Ministry by virtue of the very nature of their most cherished religions' exclusivity provisions.

It's their way or the highway, eh? No wonder they would fight to change the THC Ministry. I say, no need to change the THC Ministry, go to the TLC Ministry and carry-on as need be. Are we getting closer to solving this thing?

Love and respect to one and all,

Roger


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Nachtschattenreich
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 509
Location: Franconia, Germany, Europe, Old World

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reverendquenzer -

Quote:
do you not integrate your prior beliefs into the religion this ministry upholds?


The other way round. I am trying to integrate the beliefs that this Ministry upholds into my original religion.

In my eyes, there is no exclusiveness other than that prescribed by logic and reason. I do not like the idea of one group of humans locking themselves against another, I like the idea that at the heart of freedom there is truth, and finding the truth is discovering God.

What I see in the THC Ministry consensus (or religion, if you wish) is a spiritual opposition movement with the goal of abolishing prohibition once and for all. As about all opposition movements, the question can be posed what will happen with it when that goal is achieved? Will it fall apart, and everybody can go home? Or does it have a purpose beyond rebellion?

At this point it may matter that the experience of an opposition movement having to transform itself into an entity that can preserve the heritage of a crumbling empire is not without precedents in history. When the terror ends, when DEA/NSA/CIA and so on are problems of the past, will the world just fall back into entropy as it did so often when oppressive centralised powers failed with the due amount of collateral damage, or will there be any humans left who actually can lead our species into a bright future because they have transcended the hatred?

As I said in the worship thread, focusing on an opponent can strengthen one´s own intentions, but also may lead to losing focus on oneself. Is this THC Ministry, that is are the individuals who make it into what it is, prepared better than anyone else (!) to exert beneficial sovereignty as the Harry Anslinger Syndrome loses its grasp on the world mind, or will the planet plunge back into the darkness of perpetual barbarian rivalry as the end of the current empire makes all its confused slaves lose the only focus they have in their empty lifes?

In this situation it is not a sign of strength if an organisation is trying to make a claim it had invented the wheel. A new religion that devalues all past history in an ambition to promote its own monopoly to redefine the species from scratch is weaker than one which relies on the roots and experiences that have already grown. And if the THC Ministry went that way, would it be the only such attempt, or would it have to face rival religions that may be better prepared to launch a claim they had invented the wheel? When the political supremacy of America comes to an end, would it be the THC Ministry that could reach more humans, or would it be the Hollowood cult?
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reverendquenzer
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Tacoma, WA

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nachtschattenreich wrote:


The other way round. I am trying to integrate the beliefs that this Ministry upholds into my original religion.


Too true I was backwards in my comment, and I very much agree with you on the rest of what you said.

This site is helped me to realise that my walking away from the christian church 7-8 years ago was for a true purpose. I found the gnostic practices that view my upbringing simply as myth or suggestion rather than Law. Those were feelings that my inner light had brought to me through the years of my upbringing learning to question the inconsistancy of the docrines of the church where they contradict the bible, and especially where the bible contradicted itself. I owe it to this site to help to spread the truth. I am still learning myself but understand enough to use the light inside me to spark the light in other christians who do not understand the God in them is them and not just a part of some self proclaimed "ultimate" creater god
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prntrkmt
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 515
Location: southern California

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 1:15 am    Post subject: Re: That's a new awareness to me. Thanks! Reply with quote

RogerChristie wrote:
That's very informative!!! No wonder we've been having troubles here. Nail on the head is right. I didn't realize this til now. All of our Abrahamic members are in conflict with the THC Ministry by virtue of the very nature of their most cherished religions' exclusivity provisions.

It's their way or the highway, eh? No wonder they would fight to change the THC Ministry. I say, no need to change the THC Ministry, go to the TLC Ministry and carry-on as need be. Are we getting closer to solving this thing?


I think it is important to remember that while the Abrahamic religions are exclusive in nature, that does NOT in any way mean that every member of those religions have the same "one way" mindset.

As just one example, throughout the history of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam there have been Jewish Witches, Christian Witches, and Muslim Witches -- even though that is a heresy punishable by the death penalty in all three religions.

A lot of people don't realize that from around 1400 to the early 1800s the vast majority of the common folk in Europe practiced Buddhism. Sure, they'd show up at Christian churches on Christmas and Easter, but in their everyday lives they were Buddhist and they tended to associate Jesus as just a Western name for Buddha. The pure version of Christianity was almost exclusively for the rich and powerful. Of course in the early 1800s the various European Christian churches made a major effort to purge Buddhism and Buddhist beliefs from European society.

You will find that most American Jews are humanist, agnostic, or even atheist, even though they go to temple on high holy days.

The Inquisitions originally started on the claim that their purpose was to drive heresy out of Christians, rather than target non-Christians (even though in practice their first targets were Jews, Witches, and Muslims).

Going back to Christianity, you will find that there have been many examples of merged religions, where Christianity tolerated "pagan" practices as long as they were done in Jesus' name. The holy day of Easter is a perfect example. Easter is the German Goddess of fertility. Her traditional holy day was celebrated on the first day of the sun following the first full moon following the Spring Equinox. Traditional celebration included such fertility symbols as eggs, rabbits, and cannabis. Oh, should I point out that Easter was the main German Goddess of cannabis. The "grass" in those Easter baskets is cannabis!

Anyway, my point is that there are huge numbers of Christians, Jews, and Muslims who have no problems integrating other religious thoughts, ideas, beleifs, and practices into their own personal version of their religion. These modified versions of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam may be "heresy" to the leaders of those religions, but there are far more people who worship modified versions of those religions than purists (even if the purists tend to be extremely vocal).

I can see how the purists could have a lot of conflict with those who have any other kind of belief, but I don't think we should hold the actions of the minority of purists against the much larger numbers of really cool Christians, Jews, and Muslims who may want to learn about cannabis religion.
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Stokes
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
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Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 1422
Location: PA

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 1:59 am    Post subject: Re: That's a new awareness to me. Thanks! Reply with quote

prntrkmt wrote:
Oh, should I point out that Easter was the main German Goddess of cannabis. The "grass" in those Easter baskets is cannabis!

We've had a few Easter baskets like those of yore. loveweed

Thanks for the info.

Stokes
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aeroplane
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 1472
Location: Valhalla

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, You did. THC Ministry is an independent religion.


But what about those of us that might not want to be a part of any religion? Is there still room for us here as well, or must we also go door-to-door preaching the word and selling cannabis cookies?




Question: is it just me or are we having some minor disturbances here at the site today? I'm seeing the wrong avatars connected to user handles, and one or two avatars are not located where the avatars should be.
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RogerChristie
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 1062
Location: Hilo, Kingdom of Hawai'i

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: An oxy-moron Reply with quote

But what about those of us that might not want to be a part of any religion? Is there still room for us here as well, or must we also go door-to-door preaching the word and selling cannabis cookies?


Hey there aero,

Aloha. An organized Cannabis religion is an oxy-moron, yet try we do here at THC, and now there, at TLC. What can I say, we like to 'tinker' with the system.

Door-to-door with Cannabis cookies, eh? Are you trying to get elected, or something? That could work wonders for world peace and harmony!

All the best to you,

Roger


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jessica
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 126
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy

I consider myself a Witch loving Christian who loves all people. I admit the mainstream Christians do not like me, but that just affirms that I am on to something... We should celebrate the facts that unite us, not divide us, we all agree on certain tenents, yes? I will admit in the first few conversations online, I felt alittle offended, and thought that there were some anger towards my beliefs, but I was made to understand that we all hold our own seperate beliefs, and they are GOOD. As for me, "They shall know I am a Christian by my LOVE" My actions speak for me and I think all of your thoughts are just as precious as the ones that go through my own muddled head. Pagans, Christians, Jewish, Muslim, we are all apart of the same family. THC-Ministry just unites what the world has fought so hard to keep apart. Please continue to share your thoughts and love with one another, it is a hard thing to find "Like-minded" people, but Roger, Ferre, and others have done just that, so lets just all get along. Embarassed
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