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Was Jesus an Asshole?
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CALM_IN_THE_USA wrote:
...if we are to walk in LOVE and PEACE IN this Ministry how can we allow one to abuse anothers faith by saying degrading remarks about ones religious beliefs...


It's called 'freedom of speech'.

During the years that I maintain these forums we had numerous Christians who came here to tell us that we should believe in their god and scriptures...or else!

The last one told us that we are 'not good' if we don't walk the Christian path.

All meant to save us, no doubt, but utterly insultive and annoying.

You should realize that the use of Cannabis as a religious sacrament pre-dates the Abrahamic scriptures by a couple of thousand years and that THC Ministry is rooted NOT in the Abrahamic traditions, but in the Shamanic traditions.

I'm sure there is some antipathy towards the religion that has nearly caused our extermination during the inquisition, and our persecuting in present times by the same Christians. Don't forget that the 'drug laws' are designed by Christians and target mainly other religion's sacraments, the so called entheogens. Knowing history, the 'drug laws' are a blatant extention of the inquistion in my view.

To make it short, many of our members have a natural disgust for anything to do with the religion that has caused misery for our kind of people since centuries already and I can understand where it comes from when they post stuff that isn't very positive towards Christianity and its scriptures and gods.

BTW, Christianity does not own the copyrights on LOVE, this was around for thousands of years also before the Abrahamic scriptures were written. Sad thing is that the Cristian meaning of 'love' is not as unconditional as they believe it is.

I think I am one of the very few 'religious site owners' who allows other religions (non Shamanic) to preach their gospel on our boards, if I would try and do that on Christian boards I'd be banned from most of them.
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Nachtschattenreich
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
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Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: Franconia, Germany, Europe, Old World

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Groupthink is not a suitable instrument to fix the problems with Christianity.

Let me quote some scripture on this:

Quote:
“Then, Phaedo,” he said, “if there is any system of argument [scripture] which is true and sure and can be learned, it would be a sad thing if a man, [90d] because he has met with some of those arguments which seem to be sometimes true and sometimes false, should then not blame himself or his own lack of skill, but should end, in his vexation, by throwing the blame gladly upon the arguments and should hate and revile them all the rest of his life, and be deprived of the truth and knowledge of reality.”

“Yes, by Zeus,” I said, “it would be sad.”

Socrates, a couple of centuries before Christ.
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CALM_IN_THE_USA
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does being disrespectful of anothers faith have to do with who came up with the Concept of LOVE first...that has nothing to do with respect or considering anothers religious belief...you may have your freedom to disagree about a faith but to throw around vulgarity about someones diety many would find very offensive...why walk in hate ...and disrespect where does that get you ...and to call yourself a minister... a minister of what? hate and vulgarity and disrespectfulness...if this attitude is where using cannibis as a sacrament leads you ....I want no part of it...nor will anyone else who seeks brotherly-love, unity, and kindness
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CALM_IN_THE_USA
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and if you want to get real technical about LOVE...Jesus said God is LOVE and LOVE is eternal and has no beginning nor has no END...and many that has called themself Christian in the past... in fact is more than likely ANTI-CHRISTIAN for one Jesus said it's not what goes into the BODY that defiles man it's what cometh out...so therefore anyone who brings another man into condemnation by what they consume...IS ANTI-CHRISTIAN....So to let you know don't bring a bad wrap on JESUS for he warned that many would come in his name professing Christ or better yet they are Christian...and these would LIE and say they follow him but do the opposite of WHAT HE SAID...thus he said why callest thou me LORD and do not what I commanded you...and his commandment is that we LOVE ONE ANOTHER... Jesus also said FORGIVE YOUR ENEMIES...and do them no harm...which really kicks George Bush's concept of vengence and War in the head and everyone who supports war...is ANTI-CHRISTIAN...
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 7140
Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christianity is very confusing my dear. At one hand we have a few million people who say they are Christians and screw it up for the rest of us, and then there's a few people who say that they are not 'true' Christians, like the other Christians say that only they are 'true' Christians.

It's all very confusing, and who can be sure to be the 'true' Christian anyway? That manual of theirs is full of contradictions, the god figure tells his 'sheep' to kill all non believers, and the Jesus figure tells to 'love they enemy' but to obey his 'father's' rules at the same time.

All very confusing. Wink
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CALM_IN_THE_USA
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And of Course we have scripture if to believe every word in the christian bible both old and new was inspired and written by the hand of God ...would be to say man is God...Even though Paul say's different ...We know that not all scripture could possibly be God sitting down...and writting everything he wanted to say through Moses, through the Prophets, for with in man is the error to state their own convictions thus to believe in what Christ said who was God wrapped up in a body of flesh...I find no confusion...for he said LOVE...and if you think about this for a second if everyone were to LOVE their enemy who would be the enemy...thus where there is LOVE there is no HATE...and where there is LIGHT there is NO DARKNESS...Whatever path that be I choose to follow it...for LOVE thinketh no evil towards his neighbor and LOVE is truly kind, believing all things, and hoping all things...loving each other equally being a servent to all...and considering others before oneself is So Good...how was it...Ask not what your Country can do for you but ask what you can do For your Country...he that teacheth these things is a wiseman...for LOVE exceeds all laws..
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
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Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that the Christian religion has numerous different 'departments', there are those who believe that every single word is the word of god, and there are other departments that have different interpretations.

I agree with you that 'LOVE' is a good catalizer, but I hope you can see that 'Christianity' is pretty messed up, looking at history and how it has developed and influenced, by force or not, other cultures.
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█ Please read the Board Rules and Posting, and you
Radio Free Amsterdam
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IntrepidEZJ
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:46 pm    Post subject: this applies Reply with quote

Conversation between Old man and Young man.
Written by Mark Twain (excerpt from the "What is Man" essay)

Y.M. What do you call Love, Hate, Charity, Revenge, Humanity, Magnanimity, Forgiveness?

O.M. Different results of the one Master Impulse: the necessity of securing one's self approval. They wear diverse clothes and are subject to diverse moods, but in whatsoever ways they masquerade they are the SAME PERSON all the time. To change the figure, the COMPULSION that moves a man--and there is but the one--is the necessity of securing the contentment of his own spirit. When it stops, the man is dead.

Y.M. That is foolishness. Love--

O.M. Why, love is that impulse, that law, in its most uncompromising form. It will squander life and everything else on its object. Not PRIMARILY for the object's sake, but for ITS OWN. When its object is happy IT is happy--and that is what it is unconsciously after.

Y.M. You do not even except the lofty and gracious passion of mother-love?

O.M. No, IT is the absolute slave of that law. The mother will go naked to clothe her child; she will starve that it may have food; suffer torture to save it from pain; die that it may live. She takes a living PLEASURE in making these sacrifices. SHE DOES IT FOR THAT REWARD--that self-approval, that contentment, that peace, that comfort. SHE WOULD DO IT FOR YOUR CHILD IF SHE COULD GET THE SAME PAY.

Y.M. This is an infernal philosophy of yours.

O.M. It isn't a philosophy, it is a fact.

Y.M. Of course you must admit that there are some acts which--

O.M. No. There is NO act, large or small, fine or mean, which springs from any motive but the one--the necessity of appeasing and contenting one's own spirit.

Y.M. The world's philanthropists--

O.M. I honor them, I uncover my head to them--from habit and training; and THEY could not know comfort or happiness or self-approval if they did not work and spend for the unfortunate. It makes THEM happy to see others happy; and so with money and labor they buy what they are after--HAPPINESS, SELF-APPROVAL. Why don't miners do the same thing? Because they can get a thousandfold more happiness by NOT doing it. There is no other reason. They follow the law of their make.

Y.M. What do you say of duty for duty's sake?

O.M. That IS DOES NOT EXIST. Duties are not performed for duty's SAKE, but because their NEGLECT would make the man UNCOMFORTABLE. A man performs but ONE duty--the duty of contenting his spirit, the duty of making himself agreeable to himself. If he can most satisfyingly perform this sole and only duty by HELPING his neighbor, he will do it; if he can most satisfyingly perform it by SWINDLING his neighbor, he will do it. But he always looks out for Number One--FIRST; the effects upon others are a SECONDARY matter. Men pretend to self-sacrifices, but this is a thing which, in the ordinary value of the phrase, DOES NOT EXIST AND HAS NOT EXISTED. A man often honestly THINKS he is sacrificing himself merely and solely for some one else, but he is deceived; his bottom impulse is to content a requirement of his nature and training, and thus acquire peace for his soul.

Y.M. Apparently, then, all men, both good and bad ones, devote their lives to contenting their consciences.

O.M. Yes. That is a good enough name for it: Conscience-- that independent Sovereign, that insolent absolute Monarch inside of a man who is the man's Master. There are all kinds of consciences, because there are all kinds of men. You satisfy an assassin's conscience in one way, a philanthropist's in another, a miser's in another, a burglar's in still another. As a GUIDE or INCENTIVE to any authoritatively prescribed line of morals or conduct (leaving TRAINING out of the account), a man's conscience is totally valueless. I know a kind-hearted Kentuckian whose self-approval was lacking--whose conscience was troubling him, to phrase it with exactness--BECAUSE HE HAD NEGLECTED TO KILL A CERTAIN MAN--a man whom he had never seen. The stranger had killed this man's friend in a fight, this man's Kentucky training made it a duty to kill the stranger for it. He neglected his duty--kept dodging it, shirking it, putting it off, and his unrelenting conscience kept persecuting him for this conduct. At last, to get ease of mind, comfort, self-approval, he hunted up the stranger and took his life. It was an immense act of SELF- SACRIFICE (as per the usual definition), for he did not want to do it, and he never would have done it if he could have bought a contented spirit and an unworried mind at smaller cost. But we are so made that we will pay ANYTHING for that contentment--even another man's life.

http://users.telerama.com/~joseph/wman2.html
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CALM_IN_THE_USA
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I'm somewhat different than most who claim Christianity...and I understand how it is that many can be confused and turn a deaf ear to anyone who professes Christ...for it as the Word Marijuana carries a dark cloud...but not by the word itself but because of what others have done by using the name...many who claim to be Christian are far from being a true Christian at all...I guess if we had one quote of scripture from the lips of God we would be the better...and that quote being the sermon on the mount...here Christ brought us what it really means to LOVE ...and here he feed thousands with very little, and it was multiplied and with left overs...I believe in a Loving and Forgiving God for it is he who Christ revealed...for if we are to forgive those who offend us 7 times 70 in a day how much the more will God not forgive those who tresspass against him...this is why the hell and eternal torment theory that many speak of is inconcievable to me... and clearly a misinterpretation of scripture to control the masses...but again thats my thought...and Jesus said his sheep hear his voice and a stranger they will not follow...to me that voice is LOVE ...
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Nachtschattenreich
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
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Location: Franconia, Germany, Europe, Old World

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ferre -

Quote:
It's all very confusing, and who can be sure to be the 'true' Christian anyway? That manual of theirs is full of contradictions. ... 'Christianity' is pretty messed up, looking at history and how it has developed and influenced, by force or not, other cultures.

What you describe as confusion is just the spiritual normality in absence of a cult leader holding his thumb on your soul.

But you should watch Islam with these glasses. Might be enlightening.
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 7140
Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nachtschattenreich wrote:
Ferre -

Quote:
It's all very confusing, and who can be sure to be the 'true' Christian anyway? That manual of theirs is full of contradictions. ... 'Christianity' is pretty messed up, looking at history and how it has developed and influenced, by force or not, other cultures.

What you describe as confusion is just the spiritual normality in absence of a cult leader holding his thumb on your soul.

But you should watch Islam with these glasses. Might be enlightening.


To be honest, I find little differences between Islam and Christianity, maybe because they have used the same scriptures to define their religion?
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I hereby declare Peace on war!
█ Please read the Board Rules and Posting, and you
Radio Free Amsterdam
People who know truth, speak truth.
Those who don't, quote scriptures.
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Nachtschattenreich
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 509
Location: Franconia, Germany, Europe, Old World

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ferre, one significant difference is in a Christian culture you have a right to apostasy.

For a detailed introduction to the differences, I recommend to you this one-hour podcast: Salman Rushdie - Secular Values, Human Rights and Islamism

From a source that is equally sceptic to both.
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