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Time to choose

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    THC Ministry :: Community Forum Index -> Issues of war and peace
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Are you willing to defend your Marijuana with your life
YES
41%
 41%  [ 5 ]
NO
58%
 58%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 12

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Steele6070
getting into high spirits
getting into high spirits


Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 5
Location: Western New York

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:40 am    Post subject: Time to choose Reply with quote

As a minister, I would hope you understand that to
preach strict non-violence is not completely in the
right. It doesn't state in any religion that I know
of, that mans right to be free is superseeded by the
tryanical law of another.

Also in issues not concerning religion, the USA has
declared WAR on marijuana posessers and users. In
using this termanolgy they subject themselves to the
GENEVA CONVENTION. So in understanding that, every
person convicted for any kind of drug use and
posession, shall be deemed a PRISONER OF WAR. Upon the
finding of this fact the USA is in violation of
international LAW, and this is without considering the
countless of murders by the USA upon our peoples.

Included in this arguement is the fact by preaching
non-violence you have placed yourself and your
congregation in the same situation as the JEWS in
1930's Germany, by becoming the great pacifist, you
are endangering the very lives of the people you wish
to save and love, within the same boundries as the
JEWS as they marched to their death into the
concentration camps. However unlikely is the fact that
you will be murdered in the current "concentration
camps", the fact remains, you lose your right to be
free, with the possibility of death.

Try using this in your sermon;

Marijuana is competive with the price of gold,
so the next time the "LAW" trys take your pot
away remember the fact that they are basicly
stealing your money, and destroying your gold.
also remember the fact that after such things
happen you will lose your right to be free,
you may have other worldly posessions taken
from yourself, also you may be murdered for
possesing such "illegal" entities.

After saying that, report to them the numbers of
people jailed, number of murdered, revenue they
recieve from "BUSTS", and the subsequent sale of
articles retirieved from busts.

Then and only then, try preaching non-violence. Oh and
don't forget to add in they are being led to
concentration camps as the JEWS were in WW2.

I have led almost all of my adult life being the great
procrastinator, and pacifist. The time for change is
now, and talk and lobbying is past. I realize that now
as I watch my son grow, and do not wish the same world
we live in now, for him.

We can help each other, but only if you allow it to be
so. I am truely sorry I have attacked your stance of
non-violence, I only hope and wish for change. It is
my belief this has been tried for the last 50 sum
years and has failed every step of the way.

The Patriot Party does have a website, however it is
not mine. I do not believe they have a right to the
name because they are not true patriots, nor
humanitarians.

By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under
liberty, and "There is nothing more difficult to take
in hand, more perilious to conduct, or more uncertain
in its success, than to take the lead in the
introduction of a new order of things."(1) Also "I
have sworn upon the alter of GOD, eternal hostility
against every form of tryanny over the mind of
man."(2) With that in mind, "I hold it, that a little
rebellion, now and then, is a good thing and is
neccesary in the political world, as storms in the
physical (world)"(3) Supporting this is the fact that
"...revolution is not a right but often an
obligation"(4)

So in conclusion, "Far better it is to dare mighty
things, to win glorious triumphs, even though
checkered by failure; than to take rank with those
poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much,
because they live in the grey twilight that know not
victory nor defeat."(5)

(1) Niccolo Machiavelli
(2) Thomas Jefferson
(3) John Adams
(4) John Locke
(5) Theodore Roosevelt

Thank you for your time and it is my hope you respond
positively, no harshness towards you or your Ideals
was intended.

Andre Chernogorec Jr.
AKA Steele6070@Yahoo.com
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C/O Andre Chernogorec Jr.
12849 West Schutt Rd.
Chaffee NY, 14030
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 2696
Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Andre, first of all... welcome at the Ministry. I must agree with you in some wayz, i'll try to give you an answer as good as I can given the fact my English grammar might have some errors.

Steele6070 wrote:


  • As a minister, I would hope you understand that to
    preach strict non-violence is not completely in the
    right. It doesn't state in any religion that I know
    of, that mans right to be free is superseeded by the
    tryanical law of another.

  • Included in this arguement is the fact by preaching
    non-violence you have placed yourself and your
    congregation in the same situation as the JEWS in
    1930's Germany, by becoming the great pacifist, you
    are endangering the very lives of the people you wish
    to save and love, within the same boundries as the
    JEWS as they marched to their death into the
    concentration camps. However unlikely is the fact that
    you will be murdered in the current "concentration
    camps", the fact remains, you lose your right to be
    free, with the possibility of death.

  • We can help each other, but only if you allow it to be
    so. I am truely sorry I have attacked your stance of
    non-violence, I only hope and wish for change. It is
    my belief this has been tried for the last 50 sum
    years and has failed every step of the way.


Did you ever hear me preach strict non-violence? I don't think so.
Did you ever hear me preach violence? I don't think so either

There are sircomstances where violence is used on this planet and I don't feel like I'm able to judge acts of violence. We have courts for that.
I also believe "fighting" agains this War on our sacrament, and religion even, can be done in a civilised and humane way, we are a ministry and we have the international declaration of human rights on our side.
Inform the "general public" is one way to do this, building ministry's all over this planet another.


Steele6070 wrote:
Also in issues not concerning religion, the USA has
declared WAR on marijuana posessers and users. In
using this termanolgy they subject themselves to the
GENEVA CONVENTION. So in understanding that, every
person convicted for any kind of drug use and
posession, shall be deemed a PRISONER OF WAR. Upon the
finding of this fact the USA is in violation of
international LAW, and this is without considering the
countless of murders by the USA upon our peoples.


You make a point here!


(1) Niccolo Machiavelli (2) Thomas Jefferson (3) John Adams (4) John Locke (5) Theodore Roosevelt wrote:
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under
liberty, and "There is nothing more difficult to take
in hand, more perilious to conduct, or more uncertain
in its success, than to take the lead in the
introduction of a new order of things."(1) Also "I
have sworn upon the alter of GOD, eternal hostility
against every form of tryanny over the mind of
man."(2) With that in mind, "I hold it, that a little
rebellion, now and then, is a good thing and is
neccesary in the political world, as storms in the
physical (world)"(3) Supporting this is the fact that
"...revolution is not a right but often an
obligation"(4)

So in conclusion, "Far better it is to dare mighty
things, to win glorious triumphs, even though
checkered by failure; than to take rank with those
poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much,
because they live in the grey twilight that know not
victory nor defeat."(5)

(1) Niccolo Machiavelli
(2) Thomas Jefferson
(3) John Adams
(4) John Locke
(5) Theodore Roosevelt


So you quoted those cliche-American politicians..can you explain how YOU see this "violent" way to stop this "war"?

All it needs is the American "general public" to start do something instead of drinking beer and eating junkfood in front of their tv...ALL it needs is AWARENESS!..
Did you plan on a revolution? Like raiding the White House with tanks? Squatting the pentagon? Highjack dumbya?..I wonder.

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Drrock
regular contributor
regular contributor


Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 35
Location: SW USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I aggree Ferre, this battle will not be won by violence,it will have to be done in small political victories until the ultimate goal is realized.
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Steele6070
getting into high spirits
getting into high spirits


Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 5
Location: Western New York

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 5:56 am    Post subject: Time to Choose Reply with quote

Hello again,

I am glad you have accepted me into this message board, like yourself I believe in the usage of marijuana by any and all groups of citizens, from medical, to religious, to personal use.

There seems to be some misunderstandings between us, I thought I might try to clear up:

First I don't know the circumstances regarding the history of legalization in Amsterdam, however I do know the history and circumstances regarding the American policy towards Marijuana, and these are the facts:

The american government makes way more revenue from
illegal marijuana, more police means more jobs for the
government to tax, this includes prosecuters, porole officers
lawyers, judges, prison guards, on the local, state, and
federal levels, not including DEA,FBI,ATF. Also included into
this argument, the government on all levels collects revenue
from Busts, cash, cars, boats, houses, you name it, and its
sold on the auction block. And the American government in
all its knowledge, knows one thing above any other, the all
mighty dollar.

Secondly I understand everyones missgivings about violence, however marijuana like all other commodities is based on a supply and demand type economics. Therefore it doesn't matter to anyone that their main dealer gets busted, hell we'll just find another, type attitude ensues. But what about the dealer himself, no one cares, except himself and his family and the occasional "THAT SUCKS, HE GOT BUSTED" conversation of your former "FRIENDS". Well I suppose you know that a couple of months ago the American government nailed some of our countries greatest marijuana advocates including Ed Rosenthal. Again everyone with the "OH WELL THAT SUCKS" and because of supply and demand his memory soon fades away.

And lastly, I have never heard you minister at all, and never heard your opinions on the matter, however, what war do you know of that has ever ended for the pacifast and non-violent peoples victory, even in the bible it ends in peace through what else but a, WAR.

PS. The choices of quotes used in the post are not from "CLICHE-American politicians" three are revolutionaries, one is an alchemist, and one is the only american president elected to four terms.

PSS If living in america and smoke pot, the war being waged is against not only you but your entire family, and the generation following. NON-VIOLENCE has been tried for the last 50 years, with legislation getting worse every year. The non-violent protesters have been locked away already, the prison system is full of marijuana POW's. It is only those of us who have been released, or have not had that experience as of yet, that currently have a choice in the matter. When they come to raid your home do you simply sit and protest the arrest (the cops love that one) or do you fight back and keep them from even crossing the threshold? The choice is our, whats yours?
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12849 West Schutt Rd.
Chaffee NY, 14030
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 2696
Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, you are completely right about the unjust and un humane politix the U.S. has regarding drugs, and their influence (blackmail) on the rest of the world to follow them in their stupidity.

I also agree with you that they are fighting a war against normal civilians and that this war so far only has victims on one side.

So what are you suggesting? that we, cannabis users of the world, unite and start a war of our own? Fight them back with violence?
I don't think that would be very smart. The ones standing up and fighting will be called "terrorists", or some other term that is easy to acosiate with all kinds of negativeism fed by the media. The people fighting back will not only loose it but will give cannabis and it's users a bad image for centuries to come.
That's what I think, I don't think it will do any good. See I totaly agree that the U.S. is led by a fascist club at present times. Everybody can see that, you don't even have to be smart but I think "the war" has to be fought there where it can have some effect. "the war" as I see it, can end within a week if the "general U.S. population" would realise they have a voice and use it.

17% of the U.S. population uses pot! that are millions of people, way too much to build jails for believe me, and the economy would damage even becouse they would take importand people out of nearly every company if "they" would try to jail them all. It's impossible and they know that, that's why they keep feeding that stupid "fear" into the people. I know how that works, it used to be like this here also, before the 70's the law in Holland was the same. What we did to change our politix is that we came "out of the closet", we had mass meeting and used cannabis openly,..day after day..and proved we can make changes if you stop being afraid. oh yeah,..and in Holland only 4% of the population uses cannabis.
Sure it's "bussyness" to keep drugs, not only cannabis, illegal. Sure it's "wrong" and has to end! But I don't see how a "revolution" could be won in the States, I think a peacefull change of government, with a new and democratic government choosen by a population that is aware of the mistakes the formel one is making would do the trick also, and some new laws to secure the independency of the media would be welcome too I guess.

There's a website on the net, working to "educate" the public and showing the truth about American Politix, and making the "general" American pot smoking civilians a little more aware of the (voting) power they have that I am also involved with, it's http://www.hempusflag.com and, for me, that is my way of "contributing" to the "war".

If you have specific idea's on what can be done, and how..that's great! you're idea's of "revolution" are also, I think, a healthy way of reacting against the "government terror" that is existing. And I also believe that evey one's voice has the right to be heard! So you don't have a website? than MAKE ONE!! if you need help I'm sure there will be people around here to help you make one.
You can make free pages without any adverising on them at www.brinkster.com , and you can get all the help you need here from several members, just find the right forum to ask them if you want to, or need to. You maybe have idea's not every one here totally agrees with but what we all agree with is that every one has the right to be heard and to speak out their idea's. So feel at home here brother, and find a way to reach more people becouse I do believe you are by far not the only one fed up with those present "leaders". I also believe, btw, that people like you contribute in a very positive way to the world, you guys show where the limits of depression are and have the balls to say so!
I also votes "yes" in your poll, not that I think it's worth dieing for a freakin' plant, even if it's "The Herb" but If I translate that to my personal freedom of choise, and being able to choose my own religion, yeah! without that you can't "live" anyway, without your freedom of choise you're nothing but a slave. No thanx..not for me thank you.

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The GanjaCat
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 2:13 pm    Post subject: Bad news, Reverent Ferre.... Reply with quote

Quote:
The ones standing up and fighting will be called "terrorists", or some other term that is easy to acosiate with all kinds of negativeism fed by the media.


They've already done it, and started using it in the US media

NARCO-Terrorists

They're telling children "every time you buy a jpint, you're funding the death of amerikan citizens"

Source: http://www.cfrterrorism.org/terrorism/narcoterrorism.html
Quote:
Narcoterrorism

What is narcoterrorism?
According to the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), narcoterrorism refers to terrorist acts carried out by groups that are directly or indirectly involved in cultivating, manufacturing, transporting, or distributing illicit drugs. The term is generally applied to groups that use the drug trade to fund terrorism. However, it has also sometimes been used to refer to the phenomenon of increasingly close ties between powerful drug lords motivated by simple criminal profit and terrorist groups with political agendas, particularly in Colombia.

But some experts say that the term is too vague and is mostly used by politically driven Western politicians and journalists out to score rhetorical points. They argue that nearly every terrorist group operating today raises some money from the drug trade, and that while terrorists and drug traffickers often share some short-term goals, they have different long-term objectives (political goals for terrorists, greed for drug lords) and shouldn’t be conflated.

How are terrorist groups connected to the drug trade?
In several ways. Some terrorist groups, like Colombia’s FARC, collect taxes from people who cultivate or process illicit drugs on lands that it controls; others, including Hezbollah and
An Afghan poppy farmer inspects his crop, April 2002.
(AP Photo/Adam Butler)
Colombia’s AUC, traffic in drugs themselves. Moreover, some terrorist groups are supported by states funded by the drug trade; Afghanistan’s former Taliban rulers, for instance, earned an estimated $40 million to $50 million per year from taxes related to opium. The drug trade is also a significant part of the economies of Syria—which has funded terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad—and Lebanon, a haven for numerous terrorist groups including Hezbollah and Hamas.

Why would terrorists turn to drug trafficking?
Because they need money—for weapons, equipment, training, computers and other information systems, transportation, bribes, safe houses, forged passports and other documents, and even payroll. Drugs are a handy way to get cash—lots of it.

Is the drug trade lucrative?
Extremely. Heroin, cocaine, and marijuana are uncomplicated and cheap to produce, but because they’re illegal and therefore risky to supply, they can earn more than their weight in gold on the vast international black market. The United Nations estimated in 1998 that the illicit drug business generates about $400 billion per year. Also, because the drug trade is secretive, terrorists can amass large sums of cash without being detected by authorities.

Is narcoterrorism increasing since September 11?
Perhaps. U.S. authorities say the new international climate—including crackdowns on terrorist funding and growing international pressure on state sponsors of terrorism—may drive some terrorists deeper into the drug trade. One example is Hezbollah.

Do terrorists use the drug trade to wreak havoc?
They might, some experts say. Osama bin Laden has reportedly advocated using narcotics trafficking to weaken Western societies by supplying them with addictive drugs. (In 2000, Americans spent almost $63 billion on illegal narcotics.)


See, Dude....this is why some people think revolution is the only answer. The 'forces of evil' have so many big guns out, and we don't have no Luke Skywalker handy!
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Lilli
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 3594

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:18 am    Post subject: wow ferre Reply with quote

I just saw this I applaud at your responses to that. I agree totaly that was very well put Ferre.
Ganja cat who needs Luke Skywalker when ya have the "Great Almighty"?
Quote:
Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
The battle really isnt ours at all God will win out in his appointed time. Only satan himself would want to keep such a sacred an life and earth saving plant illegal.
cheers Ferre
~Lilli~
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Psalms 34:1 - I will bless Jehovah at all times: his praise shall continually be in my mouth.
Psalms 16:7 - I will bless Jehovah, who giveth me counsel; even in the nights my reins instruct me
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