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The Most Hated and Feared of All

 
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Clarity
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: The Most Hated and Feared of All Reply with quote

The Most Hated and Feared of All

Who is the most hated person in all the world?
Not the mass murderer, the rapist, nor the thief.
Not presidents of countries who bomb whole populations into oblivion,
nor corporate CEO’s whose bottomless greed destroys whole regions of the good Earth,
but rather,
the most hated person in all the world,
is the truth-sayer,
the honest man, the speaker of unvarnished fact,
regardless of politics, country, religion or fashion-trend.

Who is the most feared person in all the world?
Not gun-toting mafia gangsters or insane military leaders,
nor sadistic prison wardens, corrupt policemen, crooked bankers or dictators.
Not terrorists, crack cocaine peddlers, nor mad scientists with their genetic engineering,
but rather,
the most feared person in all the world and throughout the history of humankind,
is the speaker of WHAT IS, the wise among the wise who say,
“The world has gone utterly astray”.

There is no quicker way to clear a room,
no better method to destroy the party or, “change the subject”,
no surer method to cultivate the very deepest and longest-lasting enmity
amongst family and neighbors alike,
than to speak the truth.

Who, therefore, is the most ignored, the most rejected in all the world?
Whose words reach only deaf ears, dumb lips and utterly resistant minds forever-more,
until the last days of the human race?
He who speaks the truth.

Indeed the messenger is both feared and despised for their message.
But what is really feared and despised in this modern day,
is the truth itself and all its’ implications.

For what greater enemy is there to the common man,
than the truth of his own reflection,
behind the masks, facades and scheming plans.
“Kill me, torture me, cheat me, kill my children in pointless wars, rape my lands,
destroy the mountain forests, the rivers, the oceans,
until all living things must die,
but don’t take away my cherished illusions!”, they cry.
Gibbering tongues wag, on and on they try,
in vain attempts to avoid the pain,
not for the love of truth, but an addicts’ “high”,
insane, seeking somewhere to hide
from all their lies,
in temples, churches, universities or waving flags to fly.

What does this tell you, oh thinking minds of the world,
if indeed such minds still exist,
about the state of humankind?
It ought to tell you one thing most certain…
“The world has gone utterly astray”.

There is only one thing in all the universe from which a person cannot be saved, and that is themselves.
Likewise, there is only one thing in all the universe from which a society cannot be saved, and that is itself.

Those who do not wish to be saved cannot be saved!

Truth-sayers beware;
Any attempt to speak the truth about the modern world will therefore be met by only seven types of responses, as follows;

1) absolute silence
2) denial of any real problem with the world, or any responsibility for it,
3) issuing superficial “agreements” which lack even the slightest desire for action or sincere, progressive discussion
4) babbling something totally nonsensical/changing the subject
5) attacking the speaker in a desperate attempt to slander their character, thus making it easier to ignore their message or otherwise distract from it,
6) The denial that there is even such a thing as truth, or that it can be known, or,
7) any combination of the above six.

Such madness, such bizarre phenomena is universal, no matter what the internet forum, country, setting, method of presentation or subject matter, so long as the unvarnished truth is being spoken. This is so because humanity, in its’ arrogance, believes that not only is it above nature, it is above truth itself. Thus arises the popular phrase, “my truth and your truth” as though truth is something you make up as you go along. Humans have come to believe, en-masse, that how they FEEL about the truth is far more important and deserving of focus, than the certain consequences of ignored FACTS. This is so no matter how dire or relevant the subject, from environmental destruction and the very laws of the universe, to the imminent demise of the human race.

In the modern world, denial has become the norm. We live amongst a race of beings much akin to the ostrich with its’ head in the sand, hoping reality will go away if we wish long enough, or enough of us believe it so be so. But it has not, nor will it go away merely because we wish it. Our destructive and irrational actions, have and will continue to produce, an equally destructive re-action in the environment and amongst the nations of the world. This is also known as “karma”.

Having said this however, is to be ignored. It simply isn’t “popular”, and so, humanity will die by its’ own hands, with a stranglehold around its’ own neck, for a lack of those with enough integrity to simply say, “I reject modern society and all that it stands for”.

This is a conscious and suicidal decision to keep “comfortable” in consumer-land, until the very last moment. When that moment comes it will be a day of reckoning, at which time whole regions of the human world will simply die off in a matter of days and weeks. All your lies will finally catch up with you. Tjhere will be nowhere to hide in fashion-trends, or phony religious notions that have nothing to do with reality, or silly patriotic slogans which are simply cultural fascism re-named.

The World Mind Society
http://www.eoni.com/~visionquest
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Brother Adam
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post. I know the feeling all too well.

Truth only hurts those with something to hide or a reason to ignore it, and brutal honesty like mine gets me banned a lot, and has lost a number of friends, as well as leaving some on the fringes, afraid to hear what I'll say next. Truth can be a lonely place.
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-Brother Adam (we are all one family)

“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”

-James Madison

Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.
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payitforward
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: The Most Hated and Feared of All Reply with quote

I´m having a difficult time wrapping my head around the statement that the most feared people are the ones who tell the truth. Who is deciding what the truth is and who decides what the truth is not?

IMO, Diogenes carried his lantern everyday. He died carrying that lantern. He could have lived eternal and he´d still end up carrying that damn lantern everyday.

Another statement that caused me pause to ponder was:

Quote:
Truth-sayers beware;
Any attempt to speak the truth about the modern world will therefore be met by only seven types of responses, as follows;

1) absolute silence
2) denial of any real problem with the world, or any responsibility for it,
3) issuing superficial “agreements” which lack even the slightest desire for action or sincere, progressive discussion
4) babbling something totally nonsensical/changing the subject
5) attacking the speaker in a desperate attempt to slander their character, thus making it easier to ignore their message or otherwise distract from it,
6) The denial that there is even such a thing as truth, or that it can be known, or,
7) any combination of the above six.


I see the above as a function of communication skills. If you have a good idea (your truth) and you are expressing it and you get back any of the above 7 points, figure out ways to say what you mean in a voice they can hear. Each person is responsible for their own communications and the reaction you get back from your communication measures the success or failure of your communications.

I have had long periods in my life where who I was screamed so loud that no one around me could hear my words.

Brutal honesty is brutal, just like jacking somebody up against a wall and pummeling the living tar out of them. Reminds me of something my old man always used to say... ¨Darling, when I look at you time stands still¨ as opposed to ¨Your face could stop a clock¨.

Another of his favorites was:
¨I know you think you understand what you heard me say, but you don’t realize that what I said is not what I really meant.¨

Language is a mother fucker.

I like this quote from Thomas Merton in ¨Zen and the Birds of Appetite¨too:

The language used by Zen is therefore in some sense an antilanguage, and the “logic” of Zen is a radical reversal of philosophical logic. The human dilemma of communication is that we cannot communicate ordinarily without words and signs, but even ordinary experience tends to be falsified by our habits of verbalization and rationalization. The convenient tools of language enable us to decide beforehand what we think things mean, and tempt us all to easily to see things only in a way that fits our logical preconceptions and our verbal formulas. Instead of seeing things and facts as they are we see them as reflections and verifications of the sentences we have previously made up in our minds. We quickly forget how to simply see things and substitute our words and our formulas for the things themselves, manipulating facts so that we see only what conveniently fits our prejudices. Zen uses language against itself to blast out these preconceptions and to destroy the specious “reality” in our minds so that we can see directly. Zen is saying, as Wittgenstein said, “Don’t think: Look!”

ymmv,
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truth is very simple. Black and white. Right or wrong. There's no confusion here.

Asking who's truth is true is a diversionary tactic. Water is wet. That's truth. If you say it's dry then ask who's truth is true, one is still lying or completely misguided. It's not two truths.

Brutal honesty is the best kind of truth. Anything else is a lie or fabrication to soften the blow of the truth. If brutal honesty beats up on anyone it's because they were living a lie, or purposely attached to the lie. Their issue, not the truth teller's.

This isn't a scemantics game. I wonder what the motive is for confusing truth. Truth is a beautiful thing. If I tell you poking yourself with a needle stings, you can repeat what I'm saying and find it is truth. If I have tested and know it to be true, there's no reason for me to beat around the bush about it.

However, if you must stab yourself with a needle because you can't take my word for it, that is fine. Enjoy the sting. If you sting yourself and still don't want to acknowledge it was truth, you would be experiencing mental problems. No sense sharing truth with those people. Even with the knowledge they'll still be a danger to themselves and everyone else simply because they choose to be, and THIS is an EGO problem. Those people can continue to sting themselves with the needles repeatedly and they deserve that sting every single last time.

See, the problem with conveying truth never lies with the truth teller. It always lies with those receiving it. The issue is one of their own. There's no reason for a truth teller to pander to the egos of every individual. They need to come to terms with themselves before truth will have any weight with them.
_________________
-Brother Adam (we are all one family)

“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”

-James Madison

Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.
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payitforward
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:42 pm    Post subject: truth Reply with quote

Quote:
This isn't a scemantics game. I wonder what the motive is for confusing truth. Truth is a beautiful thing. If I tell you poking yourself with a needle stings, you can repeat what I'm saying and find it is truth. If I have tested and know it to be true, there's no reason for me to beat around the bush about it.


I agree that it´s not a game of semantics, it´s a conversation steeped in semantics. I have no dog in this fight so I find your searching for motives to confuse the truth a bit puzzling.

If you can define truth for me then I might be able to see beauty in it. I can see beauty in a sunset or a rose or my kids or a bud as big round as my leg but I´m having a hell of a time seeing beautiful truth.

A needle into the skin of a paralyzed limb causes no sting. We could go on and on with examples and then that would be the game Cool

My take on this is that no one can define truth past the boundries of their own self. Can you introduce me to a person or persons who know all that has to be known to make something either right or wrong, truthful or a lie? I don´t know of anyone.

Quote:

Truth is very simple. Black and white. Right or wrong. There's no confusion here.

Asking who's truth is true is a diversionary tactic. Water is wet. That's truth. If you say it's dry then ask who's truth is true, one is still lying or completely misguided. It's not two truths.


[game mode]... One can say that water is wet for everyone. It can also be said that water is not wet to oils. No one can not make oil wet with water. [/game mode].

Life is simple and in my simple life when I stumble upon a situation that only produces limited choices like black and white, right and wrong, a or b or c or d then I get that feeling that I have fucked up and not done my due diligence in research. If someone tells me that there are only limited choices my bullshit meter pegs.

Again, puzzlement when it comes to your assumption of diversionary tactics. What´s so for me is; this is a conversation and not a battle so, diversionary tactics are moot. I have been in battles and understand the concept of diversionary tactics and for the life of me can not find any stated or implied in the expression of my thoughts.

We do have a disagreement. You are a believer in ¨universal truths¨ and I am not. Nothing deceiving about that. Good clean fun and all on open ground.

The question for me is not whose truth is true but rather who could be so qualified to make the decision. Some people feel that someone is leading the parade and some just see a long line of people.

In my world someone can choose to say that water is dry and the idea does not extrapolate into a conclusion that the person is lying or a fool. Now, if I was buying a used car from that person, that´s a different story Wink. I would look at everything they say with a jaundice eye.

Quote:

Brutal honesty is the best kind of truth. Anything else is a lie or fabrication to soften the blow of the truth. If brutal honesty beats up on anyone it's because they were living a lie, or purposely attached to the lie. Their issue, not the truth teller's.


Again, what gives the ¨truth teller¨ the authority? He/she/it knows the truth for everyone in every circumstance how? I feel that brutal honesty is a lousy concept and in my world with the cotton candy clouds anything brutal sucks.

Quote:

However, if you must stab yourself with a needle because you can't take my word for it, that is fine. Enjoy the sting. If you sting yourself and still don't want to acknowledge it was truth, you would be experiencing mental problems. No sense sharing truth with those people. Even with the knowledge they'll still be a danger to themselves and everyone else simply because they choose to be, and THIS is an EGO problem.


[game mode]There are folks that do not feel physical pain. This is a known medical condition albeit rare. If they were to take the needle challenge and do not have the same physical reaction as the rest of us then they are suffering from mental problems and inflated ego?[game mode]

Granted, it could be an ego problem and on the other hand it could be something else. I´d lay five to one and say that somewhere in the world there are or have been folks who felt no physical pain and were blessed with ego loss and were still in possession of all their mental faculties.

Quote:

See, the problem with conveying truth never lies with the truth teller. It always lies with those receiving it. The issue is one of their own. There's no reason for a truth teller to pander to the egos of every individual. They need to come to terms with themselves before truth will have any weight with them.


If you tell me something and I don´t understand it then it´s my fault for not understanding? Can you give an example?

My example would be your comments:
¨I wonder what the motive is for confusing truth¨
¨Asking who's truth is true is a diversionary tactic¨

Some can construe those into ¨You are a lying for advantage¨. I choose not to interpret them that way (I could be wrong) but if I did then the miscommunication is my responsibility how?

payitforward
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'll stand by my original analysis. Lot of conjecture on your part, and if you choose to pretend everything is twelve shades of gray, have fun. The way I see it is you are setting yourself up in a position to simply discredit anything you don't agree with, since it won't be "your" truth. That is indeed a diversionary tactic. So, I'm not even going to waste my time with you, and that is the truth.
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-Brother Adam (we are all one family)

“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”

-James Madison

Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.
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Clarity
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: The Most Hated and Feared of All Reply with quote

Dear payitforward,

You said, “
I’m having a difficult time wrapping my head around the statement that the most feared people are the ones who tell the truth. Who is deciding what the truth is, and who decides what the truth is not?”

Truth is never had in the context of “who” but rather, in the context of “what”. Truth is not a matter of human decision, it IS, regardless of what anyone would like to think of it. It is our responsibility as sane persons to carefully discern what is the truth and what is not, as proven out through logic, experimentation and practical application. Truth is in essence that composite of FACTS which compose the natural world. The essence of these are natural laws. Truth is never personal, therefore there is no such thing as “your truth” or “my truth”. If something IS limited only to a given person or persons then know it is NOT the truth.

Adam said;

“Asking whose truth is true is a diversionary tactic. Water is wet. That’s’ truth. If you say it’s dry then ask whose truth is true, one is still lying or completely misguided. It’s not two truths. Brutal honesty is the best kind of truth. Anything else is a lie or fabrication to soften the blow of the truth. If brutal honesty beats up on anyone, its’ because they were living a lie, or purposes attached to the lie. Their issue, not the truth-tellers’. “

This is very well said. In other words, it is the responsibility of the individual to accurately perceive the truth on it’s own ground, not “react” to it as though that reaction could ever be more important than the facts at hand. Truth doesn’t care what our reaction to it is. “Brutal” honesty, in essence is a human conception…that the facts are brutal. But actually, the facts are just the facts, and for us to imagine that our reactions to them are somehow more important than what runs the universe is just arrogance, as the original post explained. “If brutal honesty beats up on anyone, it’s because they were living a lie” is exactly right, for it is not the fault of truth that it exists as it does, (inconveniently according to most humans) it is the fault of the individual who has long ago decided that they do not wish the responsibility that is implicit with the facts that compose reality.


Clarity
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David
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I would like to confuse things a little.

Quote:
Truth is very simple. Black and white. Right or wrong. There's no confusion here.
That's how I see things, but I keep being told there are all shades of grey Rolling Eyes . Even hearing that young children see things in black and white, but once they grow up they realise that there are many shades of grey. I think these are two get out statement. Both are true. both are false. The more we learn, the less we understand, or the more we don't understand.

Quote:
Water is wet. That’s’ truth.
In fact this is not true, water is not wet, water is not dry. Water can make something wet, but it is not wet. In fact oil can make something wet. Could that be truth? I won't say it is, just in case someone proves me wrong or I'm feared Very Happy .
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The shades of grey are all deceptions, plain and simple. Like Clarity was saying. Truth just IS.

Wet is an adjective that describes a property of water, so sure, it's wet. Now to confuse it by saying it is somehow dry would be another story. Oil can be wet too.
_________________
-Brother Adam (we are all one family)

“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”

-James Madison

Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.
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