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Sumerians....earliest advanced civilization
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Brother Adam
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:53 am    Post subject: Sumerians....earliest advanced civilization Reply with quote

Sumerians were here before the Inca, Maya, Egyptians, etc and were a very advanced society that seemed to appear overnight.

I've been researching a little, and would love to hear other people's input on this topic, including prntrkmt because it seems that the Sumerians and Assyrians were here before the Egyptians and gave us the basis for things like math, astronomy, medicine, etc.

It also seems that they had knowledge of things to come in the future for us, such as the passing of "planet X", the shifting of the poles, etc.

Anyway, here's a couple links about them...I'd love to hear everyone else's input about them, their links to cannabis, and their prophecies of the future.

Youtube videos: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=nibiru&search=Search

http://antiquecannabisbook.com/chap1/Asyria.htm

http://xfacts.com/ancient/index.html

I wonder how people like the Dogon and later cultures may relate as well because of the astrological knowledge.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two interesting sites:

http://www.lloydpye.com/

Who's work was influenced by:

Zacharia Sitchin
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_sitchin.htm

Highly speculative, but interesting -- both Pie and Sitchin are proponents of "Interventionist Theory" which suggests extraterrestrial influence in human history.

Pye's site has an interesting slide show explaining his theory. Click on "Hominoids" in the left hand menu.

Disclaimer: Best approached with an open, but not gaping, mind. Laughing

Bliss on,
Ben
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Last edited by Mystic Power on Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
http://antiquecannabisbook.com/chap1/Asyria.htm
And here it should be pointed out that we obtain the word Cannabis from the Romans who obtained it from the Greek word Kannabis, who in turn could have, and probably did, obtained it from the Assyrians. This would (if correct) make it one of the oldest words known to men. [4]


Not surprising. I suspect the earliest words uttered by our hominid ancestors were:

1. Water
2. Food
3. Poontang
4. Ganja
5. Sabertooth Cat

...not necessarily in that order.

Bliss on,
Ben
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mystic Power wrote:
Quote:
http://antiquecannabisbook.com/chap1/Asyria.htm
And here it should be pointed out that we obtain the word Cannabis from the Romans who obtained it from the Greek word Kannabis, who in turn could have, and probably did, obtained it from the Assyrians. This would (if correct) make it one of the oldest words known to men. [4]


Not surprising. I suspect the earliest words uttered by our hominid ancestors were:

1. Water
2. Food
3. Poontang
4. Ganja
5. Sabertooth Cat

...not necessarily in that order.

Bliss on,
Ben


rofl That's too funny!

I have been looking into Sitchin's work because he seems to be the authority on the origins of the Sumerians and planet Nibiru. I agree this topic is extremely interesting. What intrigues me most is the astrological data that some of these early civilizations had and where they got it from. Also funny is how the Sumerians seemed to just appear at a certain point in time as a highly advanced society, and it's a pattern repeated in a few others as well.

Tying all of them together is what interests me most. The alien connection is very interesting also to say the least. The way, I believe it Sitchin, describes our missing chromosomes and major differences with humans and apes like how they are 4-5 times stronger than we are. It offers a different way of looking at evolution because according to Sitchin, we didn't evolve, and the "missing link" won't ever be found because there isn't one.

Very interesting stuff. All the more input is welcome! Cool
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Rev. Joshua Snider
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One love Brother Adam and all!

Sumerian is a very intersting language and Culture. Not only did they seem to appear over night, but they also seem to have disappeared over night. I have been a fan of Zacharia Sitchin's work since I was about fourteen.

Merrit Ruhlen who was the prize student of the linguist Joseph Greenberg. Developed a language relationship theory he called proto-world where all languages are supposed to have came from the same source about 150 thousand years ago. He developed his theories to narrow the language families of earth down to 12 or 18 extremely ancient families. But even he lists Sumerian as a language isolate. His theories are heavily criticized by many in the world of linguistics, but for language classification purposes his book "A Guide to the Worlds Languages" is the best of its kind classifying around 5 thousand languages.

Assyrian on the other hand is one of the two principle dialects of Akkadian (the other being Babylonian). These are Semitic languages like Hebrew Aramaic, Arabic, and Ethiopian. The Semitic languages are part of an older family known as Hamito-Semitic, Afro-Asiatic or Lisramic. This family was first delineated by Joseph Greenberg and given the name Afro-Asiatic. It includes Egyptian, Berber, Chadic, Omotic and Cushitic (most of the languages of North Africa). They did however adopt many things from Sumerian mythology, culture and language (including the cuneiform wrighting system) and occupied the same territory only after the fall of the Sumerian Empire.

Here is an excerpt from one of my articles that says what I could find concerning the Sumerian word for Cannabis:

Many people (even scholars!) speculate that the word cannabis moved to the Middle East and Europe from the Far East. Most English etymological dictionaries trace the word hemp-cannabis to the Scythians via the Greek historian Herodotus (approximately 500 B.C.). The word is however said to occur at least two hundred years earlier in the Assyrian tablet of Assur(i)banibal (in ritual use no less). The Assyrians were/are a Semitic people closely related to the Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic peoples.
The leading authorities on the etymology of both the German and Russian languages list a Sumerian cognate (these are ,,Etymologisches Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache" Kluge 23rd edition by Elmar Seebold 1999 on page 354, and ,,Russisches etymologisches Wörterbuch." Heidelberg: Winter by Max Vasmer 1950-1959 in three volumes, vol. 1 page 615 (there is also an expanded Russian language translation of this). Beyond this an Article written in Swedish lists both kunibu-cannabis and gamun-cumin as Sumerian words. This article is ,,Sumerna och deras kultur(The Sumerians and their culture)" föredragvid finska vetenskapsocietens sammanträde den 13 December 1943 av(by) Knut Tallqvist in ,,Societas Scientarium Fennica Årsbok- Vousikirja 22nd band No: 3, Helsingfors 1944" See page 22. This is important not only because it places the word cannabis in the region approximately 3000 years prior to Herodotus but also because cumin is usually given as a word that stems from Semitic (and Hebrew in particular). The Hebrew word for cumin only occurs three times in the Old Testament (once in Isaiah 28: 25 and twice in 28: 27).

I don't know if any of this is helpful but it is the best I could find so far.

Peace, One love and Blessings!
Joshua
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Last edited by Rev. Joshua Snider on Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any clues as to the origins of "Cannabis" and it's use are of extreme importance around here.

Thanks!

Bliss,
Ben
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, this is very helpful. I was hoping also that prntrkmt would weigh in also because Sumeria is claimed to be the oldest civilization known to man bringing us math, medicine, physics, astronomy, etc. yet those are often attributed to the Egyptians.

The one thing that intrigues me most is of course the cannabis connection, but not just because they used cannabis in medicine and spirituality, but the fact that it seems to appear in (what we call) their mythology; which in turn leads to their knowledge of astrology. What this all could possibly mean is that cannabis came with them from far, far, away as an intrinsic part of their society, which would imply cannabis has a much more "divine" position in this universe than originally thought.

Of course, that is a lot of speculation, and would rely on the existence of other beings, none of which I am subscribing a belief to, but am very interested in researching further.

If our origins as a species do indeed point to life from other planets, the whole creationist theory as well as Darwinian evolution will go out the window. The implications of this are stunning, and what better topic to guide ourselves by today than history itself?

Any more input and ideas relating to anything to do with Sumerian culture, language, their knowledge of the universe/solar system, and their technological capabilities, etc etc are all welcome. If it further relates to cannabis and mythology/religion/spirituality all the better.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep...I'd love to get prntrkmt's take on it all, as well.

Bliss,
Ben
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunno about you guys, but I've seen a couple of interviews with Lloyd Pye and he is full crap. That dude is a quasi scientist who sprouts way too many assumptions as actual facts, this makes everything else he says sound like the same kind of bollocks.

As a scientist, he holds no credibility with me whatsoever and he did that to himself.

Having said that, I do find many of the Sumiran stories fascinating and worth more research by experts, I only think that this Lloyd dude isn't the best representative to be teaching people on the subject.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brother Adam wrote:
Yes, this is very helpful. I was hoping also that prntrkmt would weigh in also because Sumeria is claimed to be the oldest civilization known to man bringing us math, medicine, physics, astronomy, etc. yet those are often attributed to the Egyptians.

The one thing that intrigues me most is of course the cannabis connection, but not just because they used cannabis in medicine and spirituality, but the fact that it seems to appear in (what we call) their mythology; which in turn leads to their knowledge of astrology. What this all could possibly mean is that cannabis came with them from far, far, away as an intrinsic part of their society, which would imply cannabis has a much more "divine" position in this universe than originally thought.

Of course, that is a lot of speculation, and would rely on the existence of other beings, none of which I am subscribing a belief to, but am very interested in researching further.

If our origins as a species do indeed point to life from other planets, the whole creationist theory as well as Darwinian evolution will go out the window. The implications of this are stunning, and what better topic to guide ourselves by today than history itself?

Any more input and ideas relating to anything to do with Sumerian culture, language, their knowledge of the universe/solar system, and their technological capabilities, etc etc are all welcome. If it further relates to cannabis and mythology/religion/spirituality all the better.


At a certain point, arguments over who is first became arguments of faith rather than arguments of fact. I try to avoid getting locked into those kinds of arguments and when matters are disputed by credible evidence fall back on a list of credible candidates rather than trying to push my own personal favorite.

MATH:

We know for certain that the Egyptians came up with geometry and trigonmetry first.

There is credible evidence to support the Sumerians, Egyptians, Ethiopians, Australians, and Asian Indians as the first to have written number systems.

There is credible evidence to support the Sumerians, Egyptians, and Asian Indians as the first with algebra.

MEDICINE:

We know for certain that at least rudimentary versions of medicine were already being used by the two hominid species that preceeded our own.

Literally hundreds of early civilizations independently created their own organized systems of medicine.

We can track the origins of some specific medications and some specific medical techniques (for example, triage was invented by Imhotep). For most medications and techniques, we can't clearly establish who was first.

WRITING:

This is the big one that everyone argues over.

The Sumerians, Egyptians, Asian Indians, and Chinese all have credible claims to being first. Interestingly, the Sumerian and the Asian Indian writing systems first developed for business purposes and the Egyptian and Chinese writing systems first developed for religious purposes. This is the reason that the Chinese and Egyptian writing systems emphasize beauty and the Sumerian and Asian Indian writing systems emphasize efficiency.

The Meso-Americans (arguments over exactly who) almost certainly developed writing independently, but at a much later date than the original four.

The earliest known written character is the Egyptian ankh, which appears in cliff art. But that is NOT the same as actually having a writing system, which occurs thousands of years later.

PHYSICS:

This is kind of like medicine, except that it occurs with our species.

We see major principles of physics occurring in different orders independently in different civilizations, with no clear evidence of who was first for all the earliest discovered principles.

ASTRONONY/ASTROLOGY:

There is no doubt that the first civilization to make this advance was the Australian. People don't realize that for a significant amount of early human history, the most advanced people were the native Australians. Their society was knocked back to the "Old" stone age level by a massive tsunami similar to the one in the Indian Ocean a few years ago.

The Australians were the first people to master deep sea navigation and deep sea sailing. That is how they were able to build a major city in Australia in the first place (unlike many south east Asian islands, there is no short hop or ancient land bridge).

The Australians traded with and connected the Ethiopian, Egyptian, Sumerian, Asian Indian, and Chinese civilizations. Of those, only the Egyptians and Sumerians independently knew of each other prior to meeting the Australians.

The Egyptians, Sumerians, and Chinese independently figured out astronomy/astrology on their own, but only after having realized that another civilization (the Australians) had done so and figuring it out after seeing someone else do it (even if they keep their methods secret) is much easier than figuring it out without any hints at all.

All four of those civilizations used the information for astrology, especially for systems for providing advice to royalty.

Most of the early work on astrology was done by the Egyptians and the Sumerians and it appears that those two civilizations came up with about half of the ideas each.

The Asian Indian astrology system is clearly derived from the combined Sumerian/Egyptian system and must have come fairly late.

The Chinese system is very different from the Western/Hindu systems, although there are a few influences that can be traced back to Egypt.

Of these civlizations, for nearly a thousand years, the only one that used astronomy/astrology for navigation was the Egyptian. The Phoencians also used navigation for a substantial part of that period, but we know for certain that the Phoenicians learned from the Egyptians.

SUMMARY:

I have learned that it is generally best to avoid getting sucked into debates about who was first in the areas that are disputed by the experts. While each side can present archaeological evidence, no side can conclusively prove their claim. And in many cases it is clear that multiple civilizations came up with the ideas independently.

Usually when someone wants to argue passionately for their own favorite, it is because of some psychological or religious need inside of them and no amount of facts are going to sway their deeply held personal beliefs.

It isn't an archaeological debate (although it is often presented as such).

It's an emotional debate.

If you try to argue, the most likely result is that you will hurt their feelings and they will be angry at you.

It is possible that archaeology may discover conclusive evidence on some of these questions. It is far more likely that the answers have been lost to time.

My opinion is that we should honor and respect the common roots that all humans share rather than trying to argue over things that can never be known for sure.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I only think that this Lloyd dude isn't the best representative to be teaching people on the subject.


I wouldn't go so far as to call him a scientist...I think he's a former pro football player...but his slide show is interesting.

Of course, everyone who disagrees with me is obviously wrong, anyway...rofl

...but I do love those ideas that I call High Weirdness. Very Happy

I have a knack for "believing" everything and nothing all at the same time.

Bliss on,
Ben
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The earliest known written character is the Egyptian ankh, which appears in cliff art. But that is NOT the same as actually having a writing system, which occurs thousands of years later
.

Do you happen to recall the date of that petroglyph?

Bliss,
Ben
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is turning into a great thread. Prntrkmt, I am definitely not into arguing who is first, just very curious to gain knowledge on the whole subject, and I appreciate the input! ccc

I have yet to look much at Lloyd Pye, so I can't comment there. I definitely am not subscribing to any type of faith in these things, just inquiring as deep as I can in many directions, and this is my current one!

I have a tendency to disbelieve everything, but enjoy toying with all the ideologies as a sort of thought experiment if you will. Of course, I am searching for serious, verifiable answers to some of the most bizarre questions any of us face about our existence, and also searching for other answers about history that may foretell the future.

Anyway, prntrkmt, can you tell me anything more about the Sumerian relation to cannabis and also of their astrological knowledge and Nibiru, and the possibility of their (or even the egyptians) knowledge of other intelligent life forms?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mystic Power wrote:
Quote:
The earliest known written character is the Egyptian ankh, which appears in cliff art. But that is NOT the same as actually having a writing system, which occurs thousands of years later
.

Do you happen to recall the date of that petroglyph?

Bliss,
Ben


Approximately 12,000 BCE. And it isn't just one occurence. There are several from approximately the same period.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brother Adam wrote:
Anyway, prntrkmt, can you tell me anything more about the Sumerian relation to cannabis and also of their astrological knowledge and Nibiru, and the possibility of their (or even the egyptians) knowledge of other intelligent life forms?


I don't know a whole lot about Sumeria. But here is an interesting cannabis related item:

The Sumerians divided history into before the flood and after the flood (a possible reference to when the Persian Gulf was filled in by rising waters at the end of the last Ice Age).

The oldest deciphered written Sumerian fragment discussing the pre-flood period is a myth of Atrahasis, the first savior hero of humanity. The name means "the far wise". Atrahasis is the Akkadian name. The Sumerian name is Zuisudra. The Epic of Gilgamesh calls him Uta-na'istim and Ut-napishtim (meaning "he found life" The Palestians called him Noah.

The Greek names Prometheus and Odysseus may be derived from the name. The Arabic name Al-khidr is derived from the name.

Al-khidr guarded the Fountain of Life. Another menaing of the name Al-khidr is "the green one".

In modern Muslim belief, Al-khidr is the patron saint of initiation and hashish.

The Sumerians believed that wisdom in dreams came from using cannabis.
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