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Rishi
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:43 am    Post subject: Revolutionary Herb/shamanism film on your Camera, (request) Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waking Life is one of my all time favorite films.

All the best with the project.

Follow Your Bliss,
Ben
edited afterthought: Search Waking Life on Video Google/YouTube -- you'll find some clips and get an idea of what Bro Rishi is talking about.
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Rishi
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:21 pm    Post subject: It is Revealing Reply with quote

I notice there's not been much commentary on this post, even though it does say some things which are, well, extraordinary in the extreme.

It is understandable how nobody has a camaera to part with. But to not even hear one question about such things as, "reaching levels of consciousness such as that of a Buddha on film, through shamanic-like practice"...that seems rather "unlikely". Does it not?

Has all questioning, free inquiry or even the desire to challenge, been lost to the modern human mind? One would think that those who partake of herb might be more "with it" then that...
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a worthy project. Wish I had a camera I could loan you even. Seems like your close too. I would like updates and if there is anything else I might do let me know.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Rishi...there's so much semantics involved with words like "buddha" and "shamanic" to even exert myself to question your original post. To some, reaching that state on film is impossible, because it's a perspective and you can't show the perspective. You can only show the method you personally use to achieve that perspective, and it's not even guaranteed to work for everyone because you can only show the physical method. Even if you explain, and explain, and explain where your mind was out or what you were doing mentally, people still won't be able to get it.

They won't be able to get it because they aren't the ones doing it. Additionally, you can't show anything to anyone that they don't already see. Either they figure it out on their own or they never do.
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Ferre
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True that. I use DMT quite regulary, but I fail to see how making a video of me smoking a (crackpipe looking) pipe and laying on my back with my eyes closed will help anyone understanding what I experience at that moment. In my view it wll only give a negative impression for many who view this. Sure, I could explain on video what I see and experience and again, this will not give a good expression as it will most probably sound as a lot of delusional gibberish for those who are sceptic and even for those who are not.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rofl

I hear ya, Bro.

If you want to waste 30 minutes of your life (that you'll never get back) search the old POT TV archives for a video "documentary" of two guys tripping on sacred mushrooms.

I'm sure it was quite profound for them at the time of the taping, but it simply did not translate onto the video.

This is not a put-down of your project Bro Rishi -- just a comment on the limitations of video in communicating the ineffable.

Might help if you tell us a bit more about what you have in mind.

Follow Your Bliss,
Ben
Ferre wrote:
True that. I use DMT quite regulary, but I fail to see how making a video of me smoking a (crackpipe looking) pipe and laying on my back with my eyes closed will help anyone understanding what I experience at that moment. In my view it wll only give a negative impression for many who view this. Sure, I could explain on video what I see and experience and again, this will not give a good expression as it will most probably sound as a lot of delusional gibberish for those who are sceptic and even for those who are not.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've recently collected videos on this very subject, they can be found here; www.sacredplants.net.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.sacredplants.net/

You've done an outstanding job, Ferre. This is a very unique site, and much needed.

Bliss on,
Ben
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:39 am    Post subject: Do you know what a state of consciousness is? Reply with quote

Ben wrote;

"If you want to waste 30 minutes of your life (that you'll never get back) search the old POT TV archives for a video "documentary" of two guys tripping on sacred mushrooms.

I'm sure it was quite profound for them at the time of the taping, but it simply did not translate onto the video. "

///////

This pretty much sums up the consensus here.

A fair question to ask each of you is this;

What then WOULD you consider valid and inspiring footage regarding the expansion of consciousness, (or are you saying that conveying such a thing on film is totally impossible)?

If you're saying it is impossible without putting forward any criteria for your evaluation, then that would seem to imply you, (a given person) actually doesn't WANT such a thing to be true because it is threatening.

By the way Ben, being in such a high state is NEVER a waste of time, regardless of whether or not it is being filmed.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: It is Revealing Reply with quote

Rishi wrote:
I notice there's not been much commentary on this post... One would think that those who partake of herb might be more "with it" then that...


Bro...I wish you well with your project.

I've got a little over a quarter-century experience in video and film production, and so, have little to say that you'd want to hear.

Waking Life required 30 animators, working 24/7 for almost 8 months.

"Filmed live and without rehearsal" on a borrowed, obsolete camera, post production done in Windows Vista ( I assume you're editing on Windows Movie Maker 2.1)...

Frankly, you're creepin' me out, Bro. Smile

Any suggestions I'd have would look like I'm pissing on your dream. So...I'm stayin' out of it.

If you've got the passion and the vision, you can get it done.

Follow Your Bliss,
Ben
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject: The Real Issue Reply with quote

Many responses to your posts have come to mind. But I’ve decided to just repeat my earlier question, which no one has yet answered. This is a fair question, and it deserves a fair and honest response from each of you…

“What then WOULD you consider valid and inspiring footage regarding the expansion of consciousness..? “

/////////////

Then I thought it would be a waste not to “share” my other notes on the subject. I like to share you see, because I both love and respect the truth, the Path and the souls that you are. For the sake of possible interest then, let me share with you those responses I decided not to say for the sake of progressive discussion. Once again, I’m not actually saying what follows…these were only my private thoughts on the matter which I will reluctantly reveal to my fellow brothers and sisters of the Herbal Way.

In one response I WAS going to say….

Ok Ben, you’ve been in the film industry for years, and therefore I cannot possibly understand what your expertise makes clear. That I shouldn’t waste even half an hour on such a project since it is utterly futile, hopeless, pointless and perhaps even naïve. In other words, given your extensive experience in writing, directing and producing films on the subject of Buddha-like levels of consciousness through shamanic technique, you’ve concluded that the task is simply impossible and moved on. You’ve never said WHY such a thing cannot be conveyed on film, but then, why bother explaining something like that to a layman such as myself, who could never comprehend, “the subtleties” anyway, yes? No doubt through some personal flaw of my own, I find such, “caring advice” somewhat less than useful.

…..but then I decided not to say any of that.

On another note I WAS going to say…..

The consensus here seems to be that a film about gaining higher levels of consciousness, cannot adequately convey the essence of the subject. Perhaps so, but have you ever considered the possibility that you don’t want it to? If a person doesn’t want to learn something then they WON’T, no matter what the subject may be. With a little honesty I think you’ll find that this has far less to do with what film can convey, as it does with your cultural bias against the subject matter. We live in a very materialistic world society, which is deeply at odds with all things truly spiritual. A “consumer” can afford yet another new set of clothes, but can they afford to be honest about themselves or about the reality at large, and still remain a consumer? NO. I believe that REGARDLESS of the approach, filming technique, or explanatory narrative offered, that you are PREDISPOSED to reject, deny or ignore such a thing…not because it is, “a mere film”, but BECAUSE THE SUBJECT MATTER IS IMPLICITLY INTIMIDATING. After years of similar reactions to similar posts, (about expanding consciousness via meditation and herb) on this very forum, I think that point is well substantiated….if the subject can’t be changed or belittled than it will simply be ignored altogether. To demonstrate the fact a little, consider that in the many weeks this post has been on the forum, not one of you has ever asked me anything about what I mean by, “demonstrating Buddha-like levels of consciousness through shamanic technique”. Without so much as a definition of terms, you instantly dismiss the project as pointless without even clarifying what it is we’re talking about. The reason you haven’t asked is not because you think the subject is lacking credibility, but PRECISELY BECAUSE YOU SUSPECT IT IS TRUE. And that thought terrifies your consumer mind. Of the terms, “consciousness”, “Buddha-level consciousness” or “shamanic technique”, I’ll wager that not one of you can adequately define even one of these without going to Websters’ and quoting off the page. While I will concede that such a subject is probably far more difficult to convey than say, getting a car loan on approved credit at 2.9% APR, this isn’t at all the issue here. The issue is that modern society is a dismal failure, socially, sexually, internationally, environmentally, intellectually and most of all, spiritually. Those who believe in that society and its’ values, (yes I mean all of you) are deeply troubled by any mention of expanded consciousness, because as souls you know that THIS is what you should really be doing with your lives and NOT THAT. The very idea that we ARE consciousness and that this consciousness can be expanded, implies that the dollar is after all, not God, that material things are not the sum of happiness or fulfillment, and that those who have lived their lives through consumerism, “shall die by consumerism”, (miserably in other words). But the consumer is above all else a very weak being. THE DEGREE OF FELT NEED FOR EXTERNAL “THINGS” IS DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO THE LACK OF FULFILLMENT AND MEANING WITHIN. Consumers are egotists who would rather die miserably than ever admit their world is bogus in every possible way. Humanity as a group mind has decided to commit suicide rather than evolve, and although this could still be accomplished it won’t be by the likes of you. THIS is what I mean by, “cultural bias” and the expansion of consciousness is literally at odds with every single detail of this materialistic status quo.

Perhaps this project IS futile, but not due to the limitations of film. If it is futile, it’s because the public reaction to expanded consciousness will be exactly what yours’ is…instantaneous and unthinking closed-mindedness, or shallow, meaningless platitudes that accomplish absolutely nothing.

…..but then I decided not to say any of that, and just repeat the above question which no one has yet answered….
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer your question, for me (and I can only speak for myself), I'm not intimidated by the subject matter at all. What intimidates me is the technical aspect of filming and editing a documentary on this subject.

Let me explain; to make viewers understand the real essence of a psychedelic experience, in a documentary form of movie making, it requires tremendous skills from the author and film crew to not only write a psychedelic experience down but also to visualize it in a way that resembles the experience.

It takes enormous graphic skills and 'special effects' skills to be able to make a documentary which isn't just showing people-on-drugs in my view and I also have the opinion that just showing people having a psychedelic experience, while they explain what they see and what goes on in their minds during this experience doesn't come near to getting viewers to understand the full experience.

To be able to really show thye essence of the experience one needs to have a film crew that is capable of making movies with effects and graphics (computer animations) on the technical level of Steven Spielberg movies or movies like Lord of the Ring, or Harry Potter, that sort of technical skills of visiualizing what cannot be just filmed because the subject isn't visible in real life to film.

I remember that scene in Easy Rider where Jack Nichelson, Dennis Hopper and Peter Fonda take acid, with the technical possibilities available at that time, it was a fair attempt of visiualizing an acid trip, but nowadays we have the technical possibilities to do a much better job but as I said, me personally am intimidated by the technical skills this requires.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice bit of a post there, Rishi; I had to respond in a new window just to make sure I didn't miss anything. Smile

First off, allow me to express my feelings from your post. It seems to me that you feel defensive. It appears this is related to your feelings of being rejected or discarded on a subject you feel we should be more enthusiastic about. Please allow me to assure you that I do not rejected nor discard your idea and why you feel compelled to share this type of information. I did the same with a book, and I worded it in such a miserable way so that the information I presented could only be revealed to someone who was both ready for it and sincere about it.

Now, to answer your question regarding what I feel would be valid and inspirational: anything you do will be valid and inspiritational, given the right perspective. That's why I said something about semantics. Your defination of "Buddha" and "shamanic techniques" is dictated by your personal paradigm. The same is true for all of us. Perspective is key, and the only way you can properly express yourself to an audience is by sharing it in a way to which they can relate. In other words, you have to understand their mind to communicate yours to theirs.

Buddha to me means "One with All." This is a state of mind where you lose your personal identity and are able to feel everything around you as though you are it, because you have become everything at once. There are times when I am able to do this, and there are times when I am unable to do this. This is an experience that cannot be translated, you have to see it for yourself to actually understand it. Ideas of what it's like cannot properly define it for others. You can show the way, not the destination.

Shamanism to me means perceiving that you are the dream and the dreamer, though you can only view the dreamer from the perspective of the dream. It's a type of path by which we can become One-with-All. We step through the door, see that this material world is not real, and come to new conclusions of what reality is. A Shaman should be able to operate on some level as both the Sleeping god and the Dream at the same time.

Consciousness in my experience cannot be expanded. It can only be unshackled. Meditation shows you that you have bound yourself within the dream and believe it to be real. The Sacred Teachers open a gateway to the true realm of the Sleeping god's mind. Consciousness is already limitless, but the impediment of the dream-imposed self is what limits our ability to see beyond the Dream and mold it as we desire. With the Key (Sacred Teachers) and the Will (developed via meditation) we can open up a door that shows us there is more in the appearance of less, the less being that simple truth "there is only awareness." This is why I titled my book "Awakening."

My suggestion to you is to not simply show people blasted, or getting blasted, and have them talk about what it's like supported with creative visual stimuli. Show them how to meditate, how to prepare the plants, and how to begin and finish the journey. Explain to the viewer that ultimately, the journey only belongs to the traveler. It shouldn't be shared because you can only share it if another person becomes you. It defies language, so don't explain it. Explain the pitfalls, explain why it works. Make people want it without giving them gratification by artistic means, and don't turn them off by showing people going into fits after inhaling a massive dose of DMT, or talking to the wall after eating Teonanacatl. Encourage them to meditate first and foremost, because you can't make the journey without the Will and the Awareness of how to use the key in your own mind.

It is the only way to convince the audience, to have them try it and accept their own truth.
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Rishi
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: On consciousness and its' conveyance Reply with quote

Rev Erik, Brother Ferre,

My thanks for the insightful feedback on this line of thought. I agree with much that was said, in terms of conveying to the public subjects of "esoteric" depth. I will say to this however, that although the greater understanding of high(er) states of consciousness does come about through each persons' realization, it is not a psychological process. Or should I say that psychology, (pre-conception, misperception and clouded perception) must quit interfering with the clear Sight into truth which every center of consciousness(person) is capable.

To put that a different way is to say that to truly understand higher consciousness, it's potentials and qualities, one must ENTER higher consciousness, at least sufficiently to become quite familiar with it's "subtleties".

In my experience, (diplomacy) there exist specific states and thresholds of consciousness which are universal, which is to say they are NOT subject, fundamentally, to a persons' "perspective". This is because perspective is primarily a thing of either psychology, (thought) or consciousness, (state and level). This society is based in psychology, which is why it does not generally See such things clearly if at all. To say "ones' own truth" or something to that effect is misleading, since there is no such thing as "personal truth", but rather, truth itself regardless of person or place.

In any case, and even though no one really asked, I'm posting this letter I wrote some time ago to the Dalai Lama which explains what consciousness is, (and which he admits he doesn't know, by the way). This too, has nothing to do with perspective...it is true of all persons, and in fact, all life....


///////

March 15, 2006
To His Holiness the Dalai Lama

It is my duty to make a strong attempt to reach you, regardless of the very strong odds against this letter ever reaching your eyes. There is no real choice in this matter. It is a spiritual compulsion, which prompts the writing of these facts. It is also far more than just my personal hope that these meager words will have the power to convey to you what must be conveyed. There is every probability that the entire course of human history, (and perhaps even all life on this planet) hangs upon the thread of a person such as yourself being able to See the importance of this message.

Let me give you an example of what I mean by this. I read a quote from you recently to the effect that, "no one knows for certain what consciousness is". As a matter of fact, most people in this modern age seem to assume that consciousness cannot be known. Yet, I can assure you that not only can consciousness be known, but also that it's exact essence is clearly known.

Consciousness is composed of three elements. These elements are known as INTENT, AWARENESS AND ENERGY. Intent is the foremost among these, which guides the other two. Awareness provides a focusing agent for energy, and energy, (chi, ki, prana) then carries out what both intent and awareness direct.

Within this simple basis of knowledge, there is contained such spiritual power and potential, that the entire course of human history could indeed be changed drastically for the better. I implore you, I beg you, to consider carefully this knowledge of all knowledge, this science of all sciences. It is none other than the greater master and self-knowledge of intent, awareness and energy, which would propel the human race toward the next great threshold of evolution on this world. There is literally no other focus or knowledge, which can make that claim. Never in the entire written or un-written history of our race, has there been a more essential revelation than this. As you know, the primary basis for self is NOT thought, emotion, memory, ego or self-image of any kind. The primary basis for self is consciousness itself, and this fact is the foundation for self-realization and spiritual Mastery, such as what the Buddha expounded. But to go further than this would be to say that the human being is in fact, (as consciousness, atma or soul) intent, awareness and energy, and that within the greater mastery of these can indeed be found the shortest route to Mastery such as what the Buddha represented.

Some may call these statements presumptuous. But I will not apologize for having such realizations as these, nor for bringing them forward to the world. I endeavor neither humility nor egotism, but rather, simple matter-of-factness. For in truth such realizations ARE a matter of fact and nothing more.

The question now arises…will you hear the intent and content of this letter? Will you See the sweeping implications of this knowledge, and converse with me regarding the myriad details and subtleties which govern its' use and Mastery? If a person such as you were to reveal this knowledge to others, they would listen…to me they will not. Given this, I must at least try to suggest an in-depth dialog between us regarding such matters, and to promote the necessity of conveying such knowledge to the world at large. Like you, I am dedicated to the expansion of consciousness and the self-realization of all people. Let us find such time and common ground to speak of these matters, not so much for our own sake, but for the sake of the welfare of all life on this planet.

Love and Clarity to you, my brother,
Matthew Webb visionquest@eoni.com
Founder, World Mind Society http://www.eoni.com/~visionquest
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