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My alternative view.
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Lilli
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
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Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 3583

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:14 am    Post subject: My alternative view. Reply with quote

I don't believe the same as the mainstream Christian. There is only one thing that we should all agree on: Jesus died so that we can live together forever. I do know that Jesus is green and that he would speak pro cannabis.
My faith does not depend on the geological age of the earth, or whether Adam and Eve walked on it 6000 years ago. So what? If parts of the Bible are somehow "proven" to be allegory, I'll still believe!
(After all, Christians were proven wrong more than once before... look at the poor indians ) My husband is half sioux and half negro)
What I do believe is that we should love one another.
"This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:12,13)
If Jesus was here would he attack gays, or picket abortion clinics? (or blow them up?) Judging from the Bible, he wouldn't. The people he spent his time with were from all walks, and the words he spoke were not of condemnation, but of forginess. He walked right up to "sinners", those less, ahem, presentable than the good Hebrews he knew, and he sat down to dinner with them. So, if He were here today, Jesus would not lead attacks on "the sin of the week". But he wouldn’t tell sinners that they were excused, either. I believe He wouldn’t hang around the great religious leaders, discussing philosophy. He would be on the street, with the beggers and the outcasts. You know, the people most "Christians" turn up their noses at.

I believe he would spend his time among the prostitutes, the gang leaders and the drug pushers... The people who need him the most... The people who haven't found him yet. And he would gently, persistently, tell them they were welcome to join him.

Pharisees: "Why does your teacher eat with tax collecters and sinners?"
Jesus: "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick." (Matthew 9:11-12) When people tell me that the bible ws just written by men. I say yes men inspired by the wisdom of God.

Quote:
2nd Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Every answer to all situations is in the bible. That we ever need to know. Look at the 19 volumes of thick books it takes to explains a yearly tax statement. Theres no building big enough to hold the volumes it would take for man to write such a series. well peace all. ~Lilli~ pc1
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Psalms 34:1 - I will bless Jehovah at all times: his praise shall continually be in my mouth.
Psalms 16:7 - I will bless Jehovah, who giveth me counsel; even in the nights my reins instruct me
http://www.missouri-thc-ministries.tk
" I pass to you the torch that Christ once passed to me, others are still in the dark an need the light to see"


Last edited by Lilli on Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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moriarity
getting into high spirits
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Joined: 14 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You didn't answer my questions. I wasn't asking if you hated people who practiced those things, I was asking if you thought they were wrong. If I fall in love with the girl I'm going out with this weekend and we have sex in a month, am I sinning? If I whack off before then because I'm a frustrated virgin, am I sinning? If one of my gay friends has sex with his partner, is he sinning?
Most interpretations of the Bible would say, "yes."
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Peace.
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The GanjaCat
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One problem is that the MEANING of the word 'Sin' has been distorted.

Originally, it was an archery term meaning that you had not hit the mark you were aiming at.

So to sin does not mean to be evil, it merely means not to be perfect.

Therefore we all sin, we are all sinners.

No big deal!

Anyway I long since rejected the Authorised King James Version as a source of ultimate wisdom. Christians have no better a handle on 'god' than anyone else, and it's practice (especially catholicism) over the centuries would piss JC off immensely.

Don't be a slave to ANYONE else's doctrines. Work out for yourself what is right and wrong. Then live it as well as you can. Whether there is an 'apres vie' or not, that's the only sane approach to this mystery called life.
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Ferre
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ganjacat brother, I can't agree more. Cool
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Lilli
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
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Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 3583

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:55 pm    Post subject: Moriarity Reply with quote

Moriarty? You must a ask me a question somewhere else hon. I wasnt answering any questions when I posted that. I didnt intend for you to take that post as an answer . I just woke up and Ill search the boards for your question. This above was just another post I had on file. But Ill try to answer the questions I see here at this post first.. First many are won over by your attitude I mean if you were to fall in love with a non believer. Your example could win her to your beliefs.
Now on the masterbation issue. No where in the bible does it speak of masterbation! One time seed being spilled was mentioned but it was about a man who was supposed ti impregnate his sister in law as his brother was dead. It was Mosaic Law and he didnt want to so he "pulled out early" thus spilling his seed.
Ganja cat and Ferre i agree with you both and the king james version of the bible is a total disaster. Most King james bibles somewhere in fine print admit to taking out God's name Jehovah and replacing it with Lord capitol L.Over 8000 times it was replaced. Now if Jehovah had it in there that many times it must be of the greatest importance. How can we call upon the Hallowed name of God if it is obscured.
Many people today still dont know he has a personal name. If you use it the automatic response is "You must be a Jehovahs Wittness." I am not. But do use his name. The misstranslation of kanehbosm to calimus is at the root of the prohabition of our precious sacrement.
Quote:
revelations 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Peace all ~Lilli~
_________________
Psalms 34:1 - I will bless Jehovah at all times: his praise shall continually be in my mouth.
Psalms 16:7 - I will bless Jehovah, who giveth me counsel; even in the nights my reins instruct me
http://www.missouri-thc-ministries.tk
" I pass to you the torch that Christ once passed to me, others are still in the dark an need the light to see"
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charon
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:23 pm    Post subject: alternative to king james? Reply with quote

i´ve heard that the bible (the king james, i recon) have been diluted and cencored and rewritten. are there any "original" bibles around?

charon
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Lilli
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:41 pm    Post subject: well gee Reply with quote

To be more accurate you need the original hebrew scripts. Or a translation.
Quote:
ver·sion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vûrzhn, -shn)
n.
A description or account from one point of view, especially as opposed to another: Your version of the accident differs from mine.

A translation from another language.
often Version A translation of the entire Bible or a part of it.
A particular form or variation of an earlier or original type: downloaded the latest version of the software from the Internet.
An adaptation of a work of art or literature into another medium or style: the film version of a famous novel.

[French, from Old French, act of turning, from Medieval Latin versi, versin-, from Latin versus, past participle of vertere, to turn. See wer-2 in Indo-European Roots.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
version·al adj.

translation

\Trans*la"tion\, n. [F. translation, L. translatio a transferring, translation, version. See Translate, and cf. Tralation.] 1. The act of translating, removing, or transferring; removal; also, the state of being translated or removed; as, the translation of Enoch; the translation of a bishop.

2. The act of rendering into another language; interpretation; as, the translation of idioms is difficult.

3. That which is obtained by translating something a version; as, a translation of the Scriptures.

4. (Rhet.) A transfer of meaning in a word or phrase, a metaphor; a tralation. [Obs.] --B. Jonson.

5. (Metaph.) Transfer of meaning by association; association of ideas. --A. Tucker.

6. (Kinematics) Motion in which all the points of the moving body have at any instant the same velocity and direction of motion; -- opposed to rotation.



Believe it or not the new world translation that is put out by the watchtower society(Jehovahs Wittness's) is the closest I have found. But they also chose to mistranslate calimus and not kanehbosm which is infuriating. I have studyied the Hebrew scriptures. I have seen hypocrosy in that beliefe to the J W one. They leave my house in a hurry when I ask them why the show ppl with beards and moustaches on there magazine but refuse to let a man with facial hair speak at the podium. They now allow mustaches but still not beards. But there bible is a good one and very cheap. A donation is all they ask. I believe it costs them like 2.00$ ~Lilli~
_________________
Psalms 34:1 - I will bless Jehovah at all times: his praise shall continually be in my mouth.
Psalms 16:7 - I will bless Jehovah, who giveth me counsel; even in the nights my reins instruct me
http://www.missouri-thc-ministries.tk
" I pass to you the torch that Christ once passed to me, others are still in the dark an need the light to see"
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charon
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i´ll check that out, lilli. i guess they will start making house calls then, but hey... i can manage a few JW´s. one of my best friend in junior high was a JW - a very nice girl. i guess i got more patience with the JW´s than most because of her.

are hebrew hard to learn?



(.... i don´t mind if people feel the need to point out bad grammar in my posts.... except for the all lowercase writing style of mine. i woun´t change that)

charon
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Lilli
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:45 am    Post subject: Hebrew Reply with quote

Charon in 1997 my grandchildren were 3 and 4 I registered our home school "Ash Valley Elementry Rainbow School" (AVERS) taught my grandchildren Hebrew from a book as I learned myself. No it wasnt hard. I am not fluent but have a grasp. Enough to study. Just browsing thru some of the sites Ferre surfs I found this page you might be interested in.
http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/christianity/piousfraud.html peace ~Lilli~
_________________
Psalms 34:1 - I will bless Jehovah at all times: his praise shall continually be in my mouth.
Psalms 16:7 - I will bless Jehovah, who giveth me counsel; even in the nights my reins instruct me
http://www.missouri-thc-ministries.tk
" I pass to you the torch that Christ once passed to me, others are still in the dark an need the light to see"
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Rev. Zanda
High and aware
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Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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Location: northern sky and great lakes

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do we all have to agree that Jesus died for us so that we can live together forever? Will I get kicked out of here if I dont? Question
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Lilli
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:05 am    Post subject: No Reply with quote

There are people of all religions here. I am a christian and when I say things like that its to the other believers here that believe as well. Take no offense I have friends from all walks of life. Some are athiests I judge no man. You believe what you will. God shines in many forms to differant people.
Quote:
When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I am saved"
I'm whispering "I was lost"
That is why I chose this way.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
And need someone to be my guide.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
And pray for strength to carry on.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
And cannot ever pay the debt.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not claiming to be perfect,
My flaws are all too visible,
But God believes I'm worth it.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain
I have my share of heartaches
Which is why I speak His name.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I do not wish to judge.
I have no authority.
I only know I'm loved.



http://www.promiseofgod.com/iamachristian/
~Lilli~
_________________
Psalms 34:1 - I will bless Jehovah at all times: his praise shall continually be in my mouth.
Psalms 16:7 - I will bless Jehovah, who giveth me counsel; even in the nights my reins instruct me
http://www.missouri-thc-ministries.tk
" I pass to you the torch that Christ once passed to me, others are still in the dark an need the light to see"
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Ferre
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Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev. Zanda wrote:
Why do we all have to agree that Jesus died for us so that we can live together forever? Will I get kicked out of here if I dont? Question


No, don't worry, we have all different believe systems here. I don't always agree with things too. Still I find all those different opinions very interesting to read and it let's me understand our brothers and sisters a lot better. Myself, I go by "the old ways", meaning my intuition in most cases.
Since I am a minister I have been in contact with many other's from the ULC and have learned a great deal about biblical history. very interesting really but just as interesting as our pagan, wiccan, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu or any other religion we have gathered here.

We may have different opinions but we do all like each other. At the end of the day, we all want the same peacefull evening, (have a toke) and chill with our loved ones. Cool Wink

Btw, the Bible is, what I have learned, a lot about interpretation and I kinda like the interpretations I listen to here.

My all time favourite quote is from Buddha though :

Kindness towards all things is the true religion. - Buddha

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The GanjaCat
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeh, don't worry Zanda

No-one is going to excommunicate you for thinking that the jesus-lovers are as much a misguided cult as the moonies, as long as it doesn't degenerate into the kind of personal mud-slinging bullshit that haunts other forums.

Even I find the bible a useful source of quotes to 'prove a point', but that, in my mind, is just a psychological version of Ju-jitsu, using an enemys' own weapons back against him.

I'll never tell someone how they should be living

I just suggest questions they should be asking themselves about what they are doing now.

The 'fun' thing is that the 'enthusiatically religious' display exactly the same kind of avoidence +/or denial behaviours as addicts, pederasts & the certifiable insane.

Not a judgement, just an observation from a qualified humanistic counsellor (Advanced Diploma).
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Rev. Zanda
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:59 pm    Post subject: No problem Reply with quote

Very Happy Thanks all for answering my question...I hope you all have a wonderful Holiday or if you dont do that...a wonderful day. Im not opposed to others and their choices, just wanted clarification..I didnt want to but in ....may you carry on with your conversations....i will support your right to believe or not believe whatever it is...Just as long as you are happy. Thats what I wish and pray for all... globe World Peace and Kudos to you all.
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hydrosmoke
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:24 am    Post subject: what is sin? Reply with quote

Hey Lilli! Thanks for inviting me to this cool site. I'm glad I was finally able to get on the internet for a bit right now. I'd like to respond to the one poster who was asking questions on what sin is. Well, I don't know if Lilli will agree with me or not, but I will post on what I consider to be sin. Now in regards to what Lilli was saying about how Jesus acts with sinners, I completely agree. Jesus ate with the tax collectors, the prostitutes, the sinners, and he did not condemn them, but forgave them, and encouraged them to live a spiritual life. But in regards to sin, the Bible is completely clear in all points. Sin is the law which works in our flesh. Life is the law which works in our spirits. To sin is to act according to the dictates of the law working in our flesh (to act for the flesh). The scriptures say that there is none without sin. The only human being to have ever lived completely for the spirit was Jesus Christ. And herein lies our salvation. Not of works, because all of our works which are of ourselves are stained by the corruptness of our flesh. But of faith in the only one who is without sin, who gave himself as a lamb without blemish in payment of the debt of our sins, past, present, and future. He gave himself in sacrifice once for the sins of all people in all times. He instructed his disciples to spread the good news, that the sins of all have been paid for. The Lord has forgiven the great debts of all of his servants. And God has promised that all who believe in his son will be saved. Through faith in him who is able to save us, and who provided sacrifice for our sins, we have eternal life. We are instructed that in order to keep in this grace we have been given, we should show the same grace to our fellow human beings. As the apostle says, he who does not love his brother, who he has seen, cannot love God, who he has not seen. Just as the message is repeated over and over, to keep in grace, we must show forth grace. He who does not forgive his brother, after having been forgiven himself, is a hypocrite, and is in baad straights. "He who has judgement without mercy will receive judgement without mercy." Our sins are forgiven us as long as we ourselves forgive those who sin against us. This is the main part of the gospel of Christ. But there are also a couple of things that we must remember about sin. Our souls are saved by the sacrifice of Christ, and our bodies will be saved by his second coming. But there is still the present of our bodies to think about, and there is still the craftiness and evil of the law of sin in our flesh to be wary of. Just because we are saved, does not mean that we are not chastised, as the scriptures well point out. The son whom the father loves will be chastised. There is still the law of sin working in our flesh, and the forces of this present world still punish this sin. As the scriptures say of Israel, they were instructed to keep the law, so that the land would not spew them out. The fleshly corruptness of the previous inhabitants is what caused their destruction. And their destruction came from the earth, and the things of the earth (natural disasters, wild beasts, plagues, famines). These things exist because of the law of sin which is still present in the earth, until destroyed by the glorious second coming of Christ. The apostle says that those who fornicate sin against their own bodies. We all have sin, and to fornicate does not necessarily mean that we are lost to salvation. But what it will most certainly do is cause evil to come upon our bodies. The truth of what is evident in the world certainly testifies to the fact that fornication (sex outside of a stable partnership with one person of the opposite sex) yields negative results. Disease, mental strife, jealosies and hurts. This is the negativity of this sin. It is not that it will necessarily cause us to lose our salvation, but it is that it is harmful to our lives, and if we realize this, and refrain from it, we will be much better off. The knowledge of the scriptures show us that nothing good dwells in our flesh. To go after the fulfillment of the desires of the flesh will only bring us ill. And this brings me to another point I wish to make about this. To go after the desires and sinfullness of the flesh, and to pursue fornication not only harms us in our present lives, but it also carries with it the possibility of leading us fully astray from our spiritual lives in Christ, and the loss of our salvation. Christ says that a man cannot serve two masters, you cannot serve the spirit and the flesh. You will either cleave to the one and discard the other, or love the one and hate the other. We who have been freed from sin, God forbid that we should turn to serve it once more. How hard is it to practice the love of one's neighbor, while at the same time reveling in the desires of the flesh. The desires of the flesh follow the law of Darwin, of natural selection and the survival of the fittest. They lead us to gratify our own fleshly desires first and foremost. This, my friends, is why I preach against fornication as sin. Not to condemn those who are imprisoned by it, but to lead them out of prison. I do not wish hell, or ill to any. And all believers would do well to follow the examples of Jesus Christ, and of God, that it is their earnest desire that all should come to the knowledge of the truth, and that all should be saved. And we would all do well to realize that the same Lord who has forgiven us our debt of sin, also forgives all men their debts, and will keep us all in life so long as we are willing to fulfill the royal law, the law of grace, and of forgiveness. Love thy neighbor as thyself. But we would all also do well to realize that it is the desires of the body which we now occupy, our flesh, which lead us to evil, to destruction, and to all bad things. And the more we can live in the spirit, in love, and deny the desires of the flesh, is the better off we will be. These are my beliefs, and I test them by the standard that these beliefs can only do me good, and not harm. By the faith that I have in Christ, and the goodness of God, and the Spirit, and the earnest fight to bring myself more fully to the observance of these truths, I believe that I have become a better person in fulfilling the law of love. Not of myself, because I was lost in sin, but of God. It is God that sanctifies and saves. And I pray that all may be brought to the same salvation of God, and that all may realize that it is God, it is the spiritual that is good, and all things of the flesh are the workings of sin, and death. Peace.

Hydro
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