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Stokes
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 1422
Location: PA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mean to be the harbinger of doom and gloom here ... but this discussion is now bordering on the surreal.

Has anyone here ever sued the government? ... I have, and it's a living hell ... emotionally, spiritually, and in particular financially.

Suing the government is nothing like finding an attorney to handle a case such as an automobile accident on a contingency basis. Contingency meaning that if the lawyer feels that your case is virtually airtight he will take his fees from the award that you receive at the end of the case, if you lose - he gets nothing.

In our particular instance, our civil rights were being trompled by our small town local government and we felt strongly enough about it to pay the $15,000 dollar outlay to a civil rights attorney to file a 12 count complaint in federal court against the parties involved.

3 years of agonizing grief later we prevailed ... so to speak. The offending parties admitted wrongdoing and agreed to an out-of-court settlement that amounted to roughly $22,000, the majority of which had already been spent to secure council in the matter and the remainder didn't even cover the fines and costs of the 44 total arrests within 1 1/2 years that this local goon squad used to literally run us out of town. In addition, my girl and I ended up both filing for backruptcy due to the $50k + loss that we took by walking away from our home in disgust, essentially they ruined us financially.

I have the utmost respect for the 'matter of principle' associated with the recent trend of this topic because I have been there and done it myself. Unfortunately, going through the process and emerging triumphant has a great deal of pain and strife associated with it. In our case, we fought for what was right, which also included the fines and costs related to the abuse that we were subjected to.

Sadly, we remained ever so optimistic that we would be receiving punitive damages that would more than offset our legal expenditures, fines and costs, and compensate for the shame and grief that was heaped on us by these local thugs. It never happened that way, my friends. When you go up against the United States government at any level, local, county, state, or fed ... the deck is stacked against you - please know this.

I had to learn this the hard way, particularly by watching the process of the out of court settlement develope. It was clear to us that the federal judge presiding over our case could see that we were undoubtedly done wrong by the local authorities, but that made no difference in the negotiation process which took place on the settlement of our award. The attorneys for the insurance company who were there to do the bidding on behalf of the local borough (who screwed us) were very well positioned to call the shots in this situation. Chalk it up to politics ... again.

Our attorney was very good and he did everything in his power to represent our best interests, but the government and it's related associates that were there made it clear that we, as violated American citizens, would not be compensated on a punitive level. Which we believed should have been a minimum of $100k. In essence, their statement to us was ... "we will dump all over you until our hearts are content, and we will not be punitively liable for any of it. In fact, you will be lucky to be awarded the costs of taking us to court ... because we are the government, and nobody screws with us."

As this concept applies in this topic ... having the pride and financial wherewithall to file a civil complaint against a government agency for keeping your $50 bag of weed sounds like a very noble endeavor, and it may be. Just make sure that you're prepared for ALL that comes with the glory of making this kind of a statement, including the possibility of a loss.

I learned a lot about the law by going through this corrupted process and would never discourage anyone from doing "what is right", I simply hope that sharing my experience helps to further clarify any misconceptions that may have been brought forth by this discussion.
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Where love is, there God is also.

-Mahatma Gandhi


Last edited by Stokes on Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:38 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Fyrefly1
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 2209

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And then, there's that.......Shocked

Sorry the bastards did that to you, brother....definitely a learning process..the HARD way!

I too have heard those kinds of stories and it just hurts my heart to think that our government and its lackeys have stooped so low!
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"All truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third it is accepted as self-evident."
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Rev. Rodger L. Poole
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Im not here! Im where things HAPPEN.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stokes wrote:

Quote:
Has anyone here ever sued the government?


Roger has....a couple of times I think....?


Quote:
but this discussion is now bordering on the surreal.


The ministry itself was a surreal dream at one time, but here it is. Roger suing the govt and winning was a surreal thought, but there it is....I think freedom at times seems to be a surreal thought, but what we are doing is perfectly natural to the situation.

It CAN be done, and without costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. Roger can tell you that. Im sorry about your experience, and maybe there is something we can learn from it. Lets remember that your experience will not be everyones experience, due to differing circumstances.

I hear your concerns....do you have any ideas?
_________________
Stop being a slave to Cannabis, and do something with your life! How much is smoking weed going to cost you before you will WAKE UP?

Put down the bong and pick up a book every once in a while for Pete's sake.

"Compassion to those that deserve it, and Justice for all others."
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Stokes
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 1422
Location: PA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev. Rodger L. Poole wrote:


I hear your concerns....do you have any ideas?


Thanks brother Poole, for hearing my concerns.

I thought my 'ideas' were brought forth very clearly in my post by sharing my experiences.

What type of ideas were you hoping for?
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RogerChristie
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 1062
Location: Hilo, Kingdom of Hawai'i

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:44 am    Post subject: Zero blowback Reply with quote

Hello out there,

Aloha. I've had good experiences suing the government in my life and I'm really looking forward to suing them again. Almost can't wait.

I completely understand (stokes) about the possibility of having a big bummer of a time tangling with law enforcers. A very big, big bummer.

Before I 'got it' about religious science and metaphysics and a mutually-satisfying communication model I got thunked around by life and thought it was 'the other guys' doing the thunkin' on me.

Imagine my surprise to learn that I was involved in every single episode by my well-intentioned, yet mistaken thoughts combined with my out-of-control emotions that attracted my own blowback directly to me. Boink! ???!!! Boink!!! Boink-boink-boink!!! :-{

The more I struggled the worse it got! So the more I struggled. Yikes! Been there - done that ... until I left for higher ground. Thank you "gunpowder aromatherapy". Thank you Maui. Thank you mushrooms. Thank you everyone. Thank you Spirit.

Suing the Army without a lawyer after being ordered to serve in Viet Nam and then refusing to go was a personal high. Talk about a rush.

'Prosecuting the Prosecutor' here was good. Winning part of the $75,000. settlement was real good.

Suing the Hawaii County Police Vice Department and the Chief of Police for racketeering - twice - was a big rush. Twice. My van even seriously caught fire 10 minutes after serving the sitting Chief of Police with the lawsuit. I could taste the tension in the air. Yow! Not good. I dropped both suits a few weeks after filing them. It was kind of like I was throwing a chair at 'them' across the room and getting it off my chest.

Impeaching the former Hawaii County Mayor and six of the nine sitting council members all together acting as the lead plaintiff was incredible. That rocked! What leverage it was. (And can be again.) For a very small amount of money, too. It was brilliant, if I say so myself. We grounded the eradication helicopters for one year. Amazing. It NEEDS to be done again.

Suing John Ashcroft (at the height of his power) + the administrator of the D.E.A. + the Federal Prosecutor for Hawaii last year was epic. We incited the response of a 45-page Motion to Dismiss that is the government's hand in the game. They emptied their minds on paper and we have it. The combination to the safe. Thanks guys.

Then I dismissed the suit in late August. Fake left - go right. Good fun. Hardly cost anything.

Playing offense is the best part of the game. Intention is a big factor. Suing the action, NOT the person is the number one key to pulling it off correctly, in my opinion. Zero blowback.

I'm rambling. Enough for now. See ya,

Roger


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zero
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 1571

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Five pages huh?

Ricky expresses his heartfelt thanks to roger and the rest of the crew. Regardless of what comes of this, he is a free man today because of his THC ministry ID card.

thanks.
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Rev. Rodger L. Poole
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Im not here! Im where things HAPPEN.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zero, I wholeheartedly agree.....

Stokes:
Quote:
What type of ideas were you hoping for?


None in particular...I will re-read your post and see what it is that I missed...Thanks!
_________________
Stop being a slave to Cannabis, and do something with your life! How much is smoking weed going to cost you before you will WAKE UP?

Put down the bong and pick up a book every once in a while for Pete's sake.

"Compassion to those that deserve it, and Justice for all others."
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Mystic Power
admin THC-Ministry YahooGroup
admin THC-Ministry YahooGroup


Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 3605
Location: Key West

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"He is resin"


rofl
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Rev. Rodger L. Poole
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Im not here! Im where things HAPPEN.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally came up with a quote for my epitaph..... Laughing

I couldnt wait to change my sig when the thought popped in my head... Idea

I was thinking about funny t-shirts, and I thought that could be a cool slogan for folks like us....Maybe with a pic of J.C. healing with the holy anointing oil. You could probably do a million things with the concept.
_________________
Stop being a slave to Cannabis, and do something with your life! How much is smoking weed going to cost you before you will WAKE UP?

Put down the bong and pick up a book every once in a while for Pete's sake.

"Compassion to those that deserve it, and Justice for all others."
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Fyrefly1
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 2209

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is funny! I love it......!
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Fyrefly1
"All truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, 19th Century Philosopher
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Rev. Rodger L. Poole
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Im not here! Im where things HAPPEN.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Brother Joe, Brother Ben........

I think this is the first thing Ive ever said that everyone loves....lol

Does this one go down in the books?
_________________
Stop being a slave to Cannabis, and do something with your life! How much is smoking weed going to cost you before you will WAKE UP?

Put down the bong and pick up a book every once in a while for Pete's sake.

"Compassion to those that deserve it, and Justice for all others."
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