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zero
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: I'm willing... Reply with quote

RogerChristie wrote:
Is there anything we can possibly add to the notice on our plant tags, or sacrament/stash tags that builds the case for returned herb?


how about something like "possesion and ownership protected by the constitution"?
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Rev. Rodger L. Poole
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Putting something on the plant and sacrament tags is nice, but it does not get sacrament returned, as has been shown by the numerous reports of sacrament being confiscated by our members....

Police do not respect our right to use cannabis religiously, because we dont fight hard enough for it. All of those people who had their sacrament confiscated did nothing about it. Thats where the sincerity is lacking in my opinion.....

The police want you to feel you have been "let off the hook" , when in reality they are the ones on the hook. If an officer who finds sacrament on me says I can leave, I will ask for my bag of legally protected religious sacrament before I go. If they wouldnt give it to me, I would ask for a receipt for it, and the offending officers name and badge number. I would then pass that information along to my attorney, and pursue a lawsuit against the officer, the department, and the city that employs them...How would a Christian react if they were told they could leave, but they have to leave their bible or cross with the officer, and give up ownership rights to it? Bullshit. They wouldnt stand for it in a minute.

The only reason cops do this, is because they are being allowed to do it. If all you want to do is change 4 words on a sacrament tag, thats cool....Personally, I think it deems more action than that. And if ever my time comes, I will rely on myself and my rights.......and not what Im willing to lose so I dont have to get my hands dirty.


Roger said:
Quote:
I'm sure willing to take-on the return of sacrament in virtually any case, anywhere, thanks for bringing it up. I usually recommend exactly that to defendants that I counsel who were arrested for cannabis


Ive never heard you speak about it one time, or mention it in any case you have ever brought up.......thats why I posted something about it. It seems like everyone is so happy not being arrested, they forget to pursue the rest of their rights, as if not getting arrested is the goal. IT IS NOT. Total respect for our religious rights is the goal, and that means being allowed to keep our sacrament. Fight for your sacrament, or lose your rights.......its that simple.
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Echo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev. Rodger L. Poole speaks like a Dutchman... maybe worth some consideration, given the results of the Dutch attitude in Holland.

Yep, I agree. If they confiscate your sacrament ask it back! I'll keep it in mind myself, just in case.
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Fyrefly1
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev. Rodger L. Poole wrote:
Putting something on the plant and sacrament tags is nice, but it does not get sacrament returned, as has been shown by the numerous reports of sacrament being confiscated by our members....

Police do not respect our right to use cannabis religiously, because we dont fight hard enough for it. All of those people who had their sacrament confiscated did nothing about it. Thats where the sincerity is lacking in my opinion.....

The police want you to feel you have been "let off the hook" , when in reality they are the ones on the hook. If an officer who finds sacrament on me says I can leave, I will ask for my bag of legally protected religious sacrament before I go. If they wouldnt give it to me, I would ask for a receipt for it, and the offending officers name and badge number. I would then pass that information along to my attorney, and pursue a lawsuit against the officer, the department, and the city that employs them...How would a Christian react if they were told they could leave, but they have to leave their bible or cross with the officer, and give up ownership rights to it? Bullshit. They wouldnt stand for it in a minute.

The only reason cops do this, is because they are being allowed to do it. If all you want to do is change 4 words on a sacrament tag, thats cool....Personally, I think it deems more action than that. And if ever my time comes, I will rely on myself and my rights.......and not what Im willing to lose so I dont have to get my hands dirty.


Roger said:
Quote:
I'm sure willing to take-on the return of sacrament in virtually any case, anywhere, thanks for bringing it up. I usually recommend exactly that to defendants that I counsel who were arrested for cannabis


Ive never heard you speak about it one time, or mention it in any case you have ever brought up.......thats why I posted something about it. It seems like everyone is so happy not being arrested, they forget to pursue the rest of their rights, as if not getting arrested is the goal. IT IS NOT. Total respect for our religious rights is the goal, and that means being allowed to keep our sacrament. Fight for your sacrament, or lose your rights.......its that simple.


I also agree that we need to fight for our rights...

But I also think that many people are just plain scared. Scared of the police, the government, war, disease...you name it.

They don't have either the knowledge (yet) or the guts to stand up to the cops in an arrest situation...partly because in the US cops are all way over the top in their intimidation practices, which they are also encouraged to do by the police chief. But also because the cops play the good cop/bad cop role so well that people basically cow to the pressure. And, many cops just plain lie so we don't know what to believe...unless we're educated which is where the THC ministry is so needed in this country.

Someone has got to educate the public about their rights concerning the real truth about Cannabis and we ministers are the ones to do it! It can be slow going sometimes but we are making progress...

We need to fight the fight for the Right....
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Rev.Holden Greene
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you have given us something to think about before i read this i probly would not ask for it back now i will but if they refuse i doubt i would have the cash to start a lawsuit but believe me if i do have the dough it takes (and the punnishment isnt too harsh if i loose as i have 2 felonies from selling when i was a young adult) you better believe ill try to get it back thanx for the thoughts rodger

roger maybe we should have a couple of possible "script" type scnarios of how us ministers should handle ourselves in police confrontation something similar to the flex your rights video busted only with ministry specific extras i belive this could be very helpfull to prospective ministers

i just got that video & i was realy realy suprised how much it taught me about my rights during police confrontation

if you would like i have a dvd copy25$ & an official downloaded copy5$ cause i couldnt wait for the dvd in the mail i believe if i send you the downloaded one & then destroyed the file on my comp it would be leagal to give it to you that way or i could mail the dvd pm me if you want a copy of it
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sara
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

We need to fight the fight for the Right....


always Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation
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Rev. Rodger L. Poole
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Location: Im not here! Im where things HAPPEN.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Rev. Rodger L. Poole speaks like a Dutchman


Can you see me blushing in my picture? Embarassed

Thanks Echo...!

Rev. Holden Greene:

Quote:
roger maybe we should have a couple of possible "script" type scnarios of how us ministers should handle ourselves in police confrontation something similar to the flex your rights video busted only with ministry specific extras i belive this could be very helpfull to prospective ministers


Thanks for your thought on this post...I think this is a brilliant idea.

Brother Joe:
Quote:
I also agree that we need to fight for our rights...

But I also think that many people are just plain scared. Scared of the police, the government, war, disease...you name it.


You said it right there brother....Thats what its all about, fear. Believe me when I say I understand when people are afraid to speak up for themselves. It took me years to get out of the constraints of religious guilt and societal pressures, but it can be done. When I broke free, that is when I was able to take a clear stand on what my rights are, not what people tell me they are, or want them to be.

This is all we need to really stand on for this principle:

Quote:
Neither this Court, nor any branch of this Government, will consider the merits or fallacies of a religion. Nor will the Court compare the beliefs, dogmas, and practices of a newly organized religion with those of an older, more established religion. Nor will the Court praise or condemn a religion, however excellent or fanatical or preposterous it may seem. Were the Court to do so, it would impinge upon the guarantees of the First Amendment
James F. Batten United States District Judge
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

Now, the hardened skeptic might say " Well with that rationale, people could do human sacrifices again, as long as they said it was their religion, according to that interpretion," I can hear ya thinkin Wink

Nay not so, my friend....Heres the difference: We dont harm anyone in our religion, and thats a big difference. If you are harming someone in your religion, you give the government compelling interest to stop you. Since we harm no one, we are guaranteed the rights listed above...Understanding these rights really helped me overcome alot of my fears about taking a firm stand on my rights, and claiming them loudly....and claiming them ALL.

Thanks for your thoughts everyone, some good insights....
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Stop being a slave to Cannabis, and do something with your life! How much is smoking weed going to cost you before you will WAKE UP?

Put down the bong and pick up a book every once in a while for Pete's sake.

"Compassion to those that deserve it, and Justice for all others."
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Rev. Rodger L. Poole
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Location: Im not here! Im where things HAPPEN.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone else see this as the key to setting the precedent for religious use for our members?

It seems to me that if somone is denied the return of their sacrament, one lawsuit would set the precedent, wouldnt it? Isnt that really what we are all about in a nutshell, anyway.... the right to possess and use our chosen sacrament, without interference from law enforcement?

If a member of law enforcement confiscates a members sacrament, or charges them with possession, shouldnt we sue the police dept. for religious discrimination, instead of trying to beat one case at a time on the defense ? We stand a better chance to win, in my estimation, if we put the courts on the defensive. Do we want to "win" one case at a time, or win one case that will take care of all of it? There may be nuances of the law I dont understand, so Im willing to learn.
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Stop being a slave to Cannabis, and do something with your life! How much is smoking weed going to cost you before you will WAKE UP?

Put down the bong and pick up a book every once in a while for Pete's sake.

"Compassion to those that deserve it, and Justice for all others."
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zero
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of us are just lucky to get let go without an ass kicking.

I hate to pull this card, but its the truth, bieng a minority, cops arent exactly nice. First, they ask you what gang you represent, even if your a 27 year old grown ass man with two jobs. then, they want to know why you are lying to them about bieng in a gang, even if you really arent. thats when they usually start getting rough, pushing you around and telling you your a bullshitter. If you dont tell them a gang name, you will be there all day long. Trust me, Ive been there all day long. If you tell them, "i use to be in a gang, about 15 years ago, but now I work and support my kid" they want to classify you as that gang and wont leave until you tell them a name.

You guys can deal with the cops, I find it alot easier just to run. Dont critisize me until you have walked a few blocks in my shoes
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Ferre
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're getting warm brother Rodger. In fact you're getting red hot.

Again you hit the nail on the head, there's no need to change any existing laws, all there is to it is to demand your lawful rights. And yep, we Dutchies have a reputation in demanding our rights, well, it's not even that, we have a reputation of letting no one on earth touch those rights, specially not by people who are in service to us. That includes all politicians and justice system employees, they work for us (the people) down here and we are very good at reminding them.

That's all there is to it, remind the bureaucracy who they actually work for. You know, who pays their wages and such? Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen, Bros and Sis's!

zero wrote:
Dont critisize me until you have walked a few blocks in my shoes.


Do not criticize a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!!!

Laughing

Bliss,
Ben
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Rev.Holden Greene
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i do think this sounds like possibly the best way to set precident especialy if they didnt charge you cause its like addmition for the cop.

if i didnt have the felonies & i could afford it i would purposfully get arrested in a polite way by just telling a cop that i had it in my pocket & that im on my way home for a religious ceramony. i wouldnt realy be worried about a possesion charge if all did not work out well.
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Fyrefly1
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rofl
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Brother Adam
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev.Holden Greene wrote:
i do think this sounds like possibly the best way to set precident especialy if they didnt charge you cause its like addmition for the cop.

if i didnt have the felonies & i could afford it i would purposfully get arrested in a polite way by just telling a cop that i had it in my pocket & that im on my way home for a religious ceramony. i wouldnt realy be worried about a possesion charge if all did not work out well.


I've had that exact feeling once or twice. Almost itching to try it out, but really DO NOT want to at this time, lol!!

If I am stopped, I'm asking for my sacrament back or for formal charges to be brought against me for my religious practices. Plain and simple. I would have told him, if you don't want the court battle, you'll need to return my sacrament to me. Or, keep my sacrament, and you'll have to arrest me for it as well because it is constitutionally legal for me to posess it, and would be considered an unlawful search and siezure on your part. Then smile big Very Happy and say thank you!
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Fyrefly1
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, think we could get a camera on scene!
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