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Is Normal Now A Mental Illness?
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Stokes
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rofl
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Fyrefly1
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev Adam wrote:
The truth is, all children have very high energy levels. They were not designed to be stuck in a desk 8 hours a day, and neither were adults. Their youth is when they are supposed to be bouncing off the walls, trees, and each other developing their muscles and motor skills, and ingenuity.....you know, the things that have actually sustained our species for so long.

It used to be, not so long ago, that a boy would start learning to fish, till the land, trap, and shoot to sustain himself from his father no sooner than he could walk. These are REAL life skills necessary to survive.

Math, science, and social studies might make our lives a little easier today (is this really so?) they are not PRE-requisites for life like our current system would like you to believe. We are not THAT different from our cousins in the animal kingdom, we just THINK we are.

Nobody is going to just wash away thousands of years of evolution with ritalin or any other drug for that matter, but they might just turn a few normal kids into zombies.


Very nicely said...and a very good reason to do some kind of shared home schooling (which I'm very glad I don't have to do, btw...it's too hard to do!) with other like minded people!
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Mystic Power
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the next time you meet a psychiatrist ask him to define insanity:
he will tell you that the only working definition of insanity is "a failure to destiguish between reality and fantasy."


That's the definition of a REPUBLICAN.
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Torkel
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fyrefly1 wrote:
Quote:
and a very good reason to do some kind of shared home schooling (which I'm very glad I don't have to do, btw...it's too hard to do!) with other like minded people!

I agree - my wife & I home-school our 11 yr old boy.

He's coming along real well too, especially in "civics" type understanding...
yesterday we were discussing the USSA, when he looked at me & said, "Our government is a danger to society." Laughing

His wording made me proud - I am training him to take my place when the time comes. pipe

We are right in what we believe...

Peace,
Torkel rocker
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Brother Adam
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 5 children, two of which are turning 9 today, twin boys. The other three are still 3,2,1 in age, but are learning great. They are all home schooled.....talk about a task, but the boys are far beyond where most children their age are, by a few grade levels. The girls will be just the same. Schools only teach our kids to be working class stiffs. They spend 12 YEARS OF THEIR LIFE in school, and who will hire them when they're done? McDonalds or Wal-Mart. How much do they come out of school knowing about surviving in the real world? Absolutely nothing.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He's coming along real well too, especially in "civics" type understanding...


...and in field stripping an M-16, blind-folded and on the trot...

Laughing
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Torkel
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RA wrote:
Quote:
How much do they come out of school knowing about surviving in the real world? Absolutely nothing.

Right... our curriculum also includes "real world" lessons, i.e.: tree species & uses, tracking & reading animal signs, and using plants to make things such as toothpaste, toothbrush, aspirin substitute/pain relief, etc.

We spend time learning to be oriented with or without a compass, making deadfalls & snares in order to feed yourself... you get the drift.

MP wrote:
Quote:
...and in field stripping an M-16, blind-folded and on the trot...

well, sort of - since I am a felon, we use knives & bows more thrust

Real-world knowledge - things that'll make him wise & keep him alive. egg

Peace,
Torkel
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Miller vs U.S. (230 F 2nd 486,489): "The claim and exercise of a Constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime."

Miranda vs Arizona (384 U.S. 436, 125): "Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule-making or legislation which would abrogate them."

HAGANS vs LAVINE (415 US 533 N-3,note 5): "Once JURISDICTION is challenged it must be proven by the Plaintiff."
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Fyrefly1
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard that in England the kids have to go to the 8th grade, after which they take aptitude tests to see where they place in the education system.

If they show great promise in the trades, that's where they go. If they show scholastic ability they move ahead in scholastics.

And, if they make University their training can be much more Mentor driven; with several students doing self study under a mentor such as a Professor or other teacher.
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Mystic Power
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of which brought to mind the famous quote by Robert Heinlein in Time Enough for Love

A human being should be able to:

change a diaper,

plan an invasion,

butcher a hog,

navigate by the stars and conn a ship,

design a building,

write a sonnet,

balance accounts,

build a wall,

set a bone,

comfort the dying,

take orders,

give orders,

cooperate,

act alone,

solve equations,

analyze a new problem,

pitch manure,

program a computer,

cook a tasty meal,

fight efficiently,

die gallantly.

Specialization is for insects. ~ Robert Heinlein ~
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Torkel
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A human being should be able to:

change a diaper,

plan an invasion,

butcher a hog,

navigate by the stars and conn a ship,

design a building,

write a sonnet,

balance accounts,

build a wall,

set a bone,

comfort the dying,

take orders,

give orders,

cooperate,

act alone,

solve equations,

analyze a new problem,

pitch manure,

program a computer,

cook a tasty meal,

fight efficiently,

die gallantly.

I can do 'em all - maybe not a great computer programmer, but I can get by.

"It's not how good you are, but how bad you want it."

"We can skin a buck & run a trot-line... a country boy can survive..." drink

Peace,
Torkel
_________________
Miller vs U.S. (230 F 2nd 486,489): "The claim and exercise of a Constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime."

Miranda vs Arizona (384 U.S. 436, 125): "Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule-making or legislation which would abrogate them."

HAGANS vs LAVINE (415 US 533 N-3,note 5): "Once JURISDICTION is challenged it must be proven by the Plaintiff."
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Rev.DeGray2
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kind of thought this was a little weird and coming from a shaman elder in i think it was Arizona.

This is a response to a letter i sent which is below that.

What do you all think about these illnesses or disorders. the mental state and the different functions it has and takes etc.

Are some of them or all of them just made up to put things in you to mess you up or anything.

I had a difficult time the other night when as i was laying down to go to sleep i was kind of dragged out and taken to the emergency room all for them to tell me i had to see counselors, therapists phsyciatrists that never could have done nothing positive for me and to tell them all this was against my faith; my religion; being shamanic faith. and owning my own mind and body etc.

Here is the response and the letter i sent below.

btw, i also didn't read the entire thing (most) at first before i pasted it to post and now that i have right before i noticed that it is even more weird and even rediculous along with a bit of dillusion or propaganda or something like that. Very weird.

But anyways also if you have any advice, suggestions etc. and would not mind posting please by all means do.

___________________________________
From Shaman Elder;

I certainly respect your right to practice what you believe but I myself find that any kind of sacrament use or associated use only serves to put someone more off balance than they were originally. I find that it is through balance of your four body system that you can access the higher planes of existence, those planes that we cannot normally attain without awareness and balance. It may seem as though these brain chemical alterations provide you with the means to attain the causal state or the buddhic state on some level but actually what you are doing is simply screwing up the normal operation of a beautifully efficient and finely tuned nervous system. The constant abuse ofyour nervous system through continual use of sacrament compounds can seriously and even permanently alter the firing of the synapses in your brain, your nerves proper operation, and leave you impaired.
What you are describing to me in your letter sounds like you have seriously damaged your nervous system. It sounds to me as though you have seriously damaged the nerves in your brain and their normal firing of electrical signals which are messages to your muscles and heart and other organs. The symptoms are involuntary muscle spasms, hallucinogenic visions, uncoordinated thoughts, separation from reality, memory losses, vision disturbances, and more.
I don't think your family's effort to make you seek help is done in any way to harm you really. I am sure they only want the best for you, that they do love you and that they see you do need help. Do you honestly think they would do this kind of intervention if it were not needed? This is not just one person thinking you need intervention. This is a group of people who know you. They can't all be just making this up. Your own symptoms as you describe them show that you have a breakdown of your nervous system occurring right now .
I am not going to say here that you are bi polar or anything else. I see a breakdown of the proper functioning of your nervous system. Was it because of these more powerful drugs like Prozac or haldol, was it these drugs which caused your nervous system to be overstimulated and cause this breakdown? It could be! Or maybe not. But after years of this drug abuse on your nervous system through prescription drugs, just a little sacrament use would be more than enough to damage your whole nervous system. This nervous system damage I have seen before in sacrament users who never took haldol or Prozac. How do you expect your nervous system to stand all this? It shoudl be no surprise to you at all that you have damaged your nervous sytem.
Everyone is telling you that are making life for you and for those around you bad. So it is obvious that you need to take a look at what they are seeing, try to see things from their eyes, what are they seeing, and if you were them looking at you, what would you see? Try to wear their moccasins for minute here. I would say to acquiesce for their sake and you decide what is the best way for you to heal your nervous system. It will take a long time. Where can you feel comfortable and have time to heal this dis-ease?
overwhelming pain and chronic nausea
 pain
is just about everywhere
chronic cases of depression
not really had too many promising friends not being able to welcomed
discriminated against for my faith
my family is very
upset though with me and always begs me to get help
This is what they see. Thisis what you see. This is absolutely messed up and needs to be treated right now. I would suggest that you either admit yourself to a psychiatric facility and seek treatment and counseling or that you get yourself off all drugs alcohol, smoking, all kinds of chemicals, completely cold turkey and go to AA group therapy/drug rehab something.

They sure are but how can you possibly think that some shaman will come in and wave a magic wand to just instantly undo the damage that you yourself have done to your nervous system? Even if this damage was caused by years of psychotic drugs prescribed for you since age ten, no shaman is going to come in and release you from something like that, especially if you continue to abuse your nervous system with your continued use of your sacrament.
I am not here to say anything about your sacrament except that you have a damaged nervous system and doing sacrament at this time is only adding to and increasing the damage. Can't you see this?????
You must not use your sacrament for at least 6 months. You must not use any intoxicant, drug, alcohol not even cigarettes for 6 months. You must seek counseling so that you can get a better grip on reality in your culture and historical time period. You need to reconnect with this society and this civilization so that you can operate within it no matter whether it is good or bad. You are not functioning. You cannot heal anyone including yourself until you can heal your nervous system to be able to function here.
So if you want to work with me, you must do these things. You must believe that your family are seeing these things and that you must listen to them and get help.
The help I want you to get is not to find a shaman who can wave a magic wand and undo all the damage that has been done to your body in one second, and in fact you know that will not happen as the body is the slowest thing to heal. You must take steps to heal your own body. You must detoxify your system. You must begin a physical exercise program. I recommend tai chi, actually taking classes. There are free ones. They will help you channel your energy properly and even sleep better. You must seek out a counselor or drug rehab program in your area to work with in person because they know about destroyed nervous systems and you also have beliefs that do not benefit you and you do not even realize this. You must eat 3 meals a day and you must listen to the advice of those around you and not just dismiss them. Right now you don't know what you are doing and they might not know everything but they know more than you do.
Once you have completed these tasks, write me back and we will see about working together.
If you keep going the way you are going and keep using sacrament regardless, you will kill yourself. Is that what you want to do? What good is that? Is it good and right to kill your body with Sacrament????? You are misusing and in fact abusing sacrament. You have a mission here and you are about as far away from being able to accomplish that mission as you could possibly get yourself. Why do you run away from your mission? Get your body well and we will talk about your mission.
Aho!
Shaman Elder Maggie
Make a donation to support the work freely given by Shaman Elder Maggie. http://shamanelder.com/beliefcounseling.html


----- Original Message -----

  I have been in the emergency room last night and the very nature of what led to it also i would like to describe as i seek any help or counseling or anything that is within my faith being shamanism and having knowledge and awarness of and with respect for all paths that respect others equally.
I was in the emergency room last night from about 7:00 p.m. or so untill 11 p.m.
It happened while i was laying in bed soon to be going to sleep as i was really tired and needed rest. The next thing i know is my mother comes in my bedroom followed by my stepfather and said i need help so i have the "choice" of either going to Jail for my have been diagnosed by the medical doctors and phsyciatrists when i was a young boy as manic depression but shortly changed it to Bi-Polar disorder or to be admitted somewhere, a clinic or hospital which it was to be treated, urine tested put back on the same old drugs as prozac and haldol, tegretol and diziprimine etc. Drugs like that as i have been on all of them and much more when i was a child and adolescent do to the diagnosis even forced (required) by the state at that time to take these drugs for bi-polar and anxiety disorders where also noted and i have been in counseling all my life up untill i became of the age of 19 (17 i stopped taking those drugs that put me to sleep for long periods of time making me more miserable and i barely even made it through what i now beleive to be uneducated schooling as it does not really help individuals find there calling or spirituality) and then i have not been to counselors/doctors etc. of that sort for a while
It was/is really upsetting along with the whole scene that came with it.
I had called my mother to let her know that i had thought over if i would like to move again and i decided i was going to look into it asap.
Basically everone is telling me i am making life for myself and others bad. My mother and stepfather and i assume others basically are saying i was i first had respectful notes on the bedroom doors for everyone to please respect my belongings and if they could just stay out of the bedroom areas as i have my cat in my bedroom and the other two bedrooms, they don't really have too much but i would have liked to keep anyone away from belongings of mine, even esspecially everything that is sacred of mine. So basically if i did not go forcefully ("Chioce") to the emergency room and everything that comes with it they would have taken me to jail to never be able to ever see or know or bleive in myself, people or anything for that matter positive in the world/life again as we do know that is all negative force and energy.

I have been experiencing overwhelming pain and chronic nausea . The pain is just about everywhere, my neck and my back. My sleep is sometimes more but i have difficult time sleeping after about anywhere between 1-5 a.m. going to sleep about 4-7:30 p.m. sometimes not being able to fall asleep untill after 9 p.m. though still waking at between 1-5 a.m which i am happy to wake between 4 4:30 5 in the morning as it is good to start the day with a little bit of if not a spirit walk mabey clenasing or blessing ritual of some type. I have had difficulty in keeping myself from grinding my teeth as one habit as i become more aware of them i will certainly be keeping track of more closely. But i have a serious case of Chronic nausea and bloating that i am not sure what to do about.

  I have not really had too many promising freinds though in my life and have had much feeling of not being able to welcomed much. I have felt that my family really does not want to help too much or they would be helping with more natural organic herbal and even homeopathic treatments along with tinctures etc. My mother mainly but even the rest of my family is very upset though with me and always begs me to get help but it is just not the help that they would like me to get or be forced into or something. She has been in tears many times over it and i wish there was just one way and even one time that i can help her and make her happy or something.

Mabey i should have been a bit easier
through what led to all this kind of like happening again or something but after the first notes though i mentioned there was boards in there as the bathroom was beng completely torn out and re-done as the landlord which has been a good freind of mine and that of my families for quite a while and has to fix up the entire place just about so she could rent it out to someone else or sell it, first the notes were taken off so i thought i would put them back up but with their language that they understand like most of the people i have known in the last 10 years or so.
I also feel i would like to stay out of their way which brings me to the fact that my mother and step father (and they and everyone out here at the moment is making me feel so depressed, insecure and unsafe), they said i am ot allwed to stay and sit and do something or sleep in my bedroom and then they said i could not go out for a walk or anything but right before i was suprisigly able to be released they told me from the hospital that that is what i should do but there was a problem with that for some reaon or another that was broght to my attention.

I am just at the point though were i am not sure what to do now. I have no one or nowhere now to turn to. I basicaly am loosing every last hope of any happiness or anything else for that matter now that i have to be all drugged up Again.

I also though feel that i was not meant to live and think as most do out here which is mostly if there is anything someone disagrees with including speech or something that otherwise would have been a reasonable, respectful and a very important part of human existence as once seemd to have been or once was it is completely impinged upon and taken away.

I realy apoligize that this is so long and i really feel i need to know what you and others would say or ask or anythig about this as i am desperately in need of advice, service, a freind and guidance in my daily life and being, suggestions and someone and somewhere to turn to.

  If i do have to move and am not able to fnd another place to live i am not even sure where i am going to or what i will be able to do.
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sara
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Home schooling is not legal here. Sad
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Rev.DeGray2
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to say that since that last post and everything else of it there have been a few positive things like i am now able to at least go about things the way i know i should in terms of health etc.

All Herbal and all natural approach and i wonder if we even have some infromation and things on such, It is about time i get away from more of those difficulties by now.
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