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DJ Druid
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess we just see this issue differently, Rev. Adam. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between our two positions. Either way, health and happiness to you in whatever world is coming our way! And IntrepidEZJ, I hope you get your answers too. smoke1
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prntrkmt
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IntrepidEZJ wrote:
I would like to believe that hemp is the best source in the world for automobile fuel.

If not, ok.

If it truly is, I just don't understand why Ferre is not hopping all over this. Smile

Green Gold!

But, in all seriousness, I'm beginning to think that maybe it is not "it", since I hear no reports from anywhere in the world of anyone using it on a large scale basis.

I realize it "can be done", but is it, or will it be cheaper, and more efficient, than what we use currently?


Burning hemp seed oil has significant advantages over burning petrolium -- most importantly that the live plant mitigates some of the damage caused by the burning of its oil.

But BURNING anything is a stop-gap measure. While some burning choices are less harmful than others, all burning choices are harmful.

We need to develop large scale, low cost energy generation or energy capture methods that do NOT involve burning.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev. Adam wrote:
Damn....I'm sorry I missed this post. There are just as many scientists that say global warming is hogwash. The entire content of CO2 in the atmosphere is only 0.054% of the whole atmosphere. The amount we contribute is far, far less. Volcanoes produce more CO2 than humans, cow with methane, and decaying plant matter combined.

I promise you are being duped. Global warming coincides more closely with sunspot activity than it does with human CO2 output. Matter of factly, temperatures dropped during the industrial revolution when they should have been rising because of our CO2 output.

Just before the little ice age temperature were significantly higher than they are now, yet mankind and polar bears survived just fine.


I did NOT write the following, but am quoting it to give you enough information to follow up with your own research:

FROM SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN:

Behind the Hockey Stick
Seven years ago Michael Mann introduced a graph that became an iconic symbol of humanity's contribution to global warming. He has been defending his science ever since
By David Appell

Michael Mann knows his students and his subject. The topic of the graduate seminar: El Niño and radiative forcing. The beer he will be serving: Corona, "because I'm going to be talking about tropical climate." Not surprisingly, attendance is high.

Mann is most famously known for the "hockey stick," a plot of the past millennium's temperature that shows the drastic influence of humans in the 20th century. Specifically, temperature remains essentially flat until about 1900, then shoots up, like the upturned blade of a hockey stick. The work was also the first to add error bars to the historical temperatures and allow for regional reconstructions of temperature.
That stick has become a focal point in the controversy surrounding climate change and what to do about it. Proponents see it as a clear indicator that humans are warming the globe; skeptics argue that the climate is undergoing a natural fluctuation not unlike those in eras past. But Mann has not been deterred by the attacks. "If we allowed that sort of thing to stop us from progressing in science, that would be a very frightening world," says the 39-year-old climatologist in his University of Virginia office overlooking the hills of Monticello, the home of Thomas Jefferson.
ADVERTISEMENT (article continues below)

To construct the hockey-stick plot, Mann, Raymond S. Bradley of the University of Massachusetts Amherst and Malcolm K. Hughes of the University of Arizona analyzed paleoclimatic data sets such as those from tree rings, ice cores and coral, joining historical data with thermometer readings from the recent past. In 1998 they obtained a "reconstruction" of Northern Hemisphere temperatures going back 600 years; by the next year they had extended their analysis to the past 1,000 years. In 2003 Mann and Philip D. Jones of the University of East Anglia in England used a different method to extend results back 2,000 years.

In each case, the outcome was clear: global mean temperature began to rise dramatically in the early 20th century. That rise coincided with the unprecedented release of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases into the earth's atmosphere, leading to the conclusion that industrial activity was boosting the world's mean temperature. Other researchers subsequently confirmed the plot.

The work of Mann and his colleagues achieved special prominence in 2001. That is when the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), an international body of climate experts, placed the hockey-stick chart in the Summary for Policymakers section of the panel's Third Assessment Report. (Mann also co-authored one of the chapters in the report.) It thereby elevated the hockey stick to iconic status--as well as making it a bull's-eye. A community skeptical of human-induced warming argued that Mann's data points were too sparse to constitute a true picture, or that his raw data were numerically suspicious, or that they could not reproduce his results with the data he had used. Take down Mann, it seemed, and the rest of the IPCC's conclusions about anthropogenic climate change would follow.

That led to "unjustified attack after unjustified attack," complains climatologist Gavin A. Schmidt of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies. Although questions in the field abound about how, for example, tree-ring data are compiled, many of those attacking Mann's work, Schmidt claims, have had a priori opinions that the work must be wrong. "Most scientists would have left the field long ago, but Mike is fighting back with a tenacity I find admirable," Schmidt says. One of Mann's more public punch backs took place in July 2003, when he defended his views before a congressional committee led by Senator James M. Inhofe of Oklahoma, who has called global warming a "hoax." "I left that meeting having demonstrated what the mainstream views on climate science are," Mann asserts.

More recently, Mann battled back in a 2004 corrigendum in the journal Nature, in which he clarified the presentation of his data. He has also shown how errors on the part of his attackers led to their specific results. For instance, skeptics often cite the Little Ice Age and Medieval Warming Period as pieces of evidence not reflected in the hockey stick, yet these extremes are examples of regional, not global, phenomena. "From an intellectual point of view, these contrarians are pathetic, because there's no scientific validity to their arguments whatsoever," Mann says. "But they're very skilled at deducing what sorts of disingenuous arguments and untruths are likely to be believable to the public that doesn't know better."
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Brother Adam
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done plenty of research on this topic, and the video I posted is not just some youtube video. It is full of leading scientists and gives a very compelling case against global warming. Have you watched it?

Quote:
Scientists in the programme also raise another discrepancy with the official line, showing that most of the recent global warming occurred before 1940, when global temperatures then fell for four decades.

It was only in the late 1970s that the current trend of rising temperatures began.


About the IPCC reports and Al Gore's movie:

Quote:
It claimed to be the opinion of 2,500 leading scientists, but Prof Reiter said it included names of scientists who disagreed with the findings and resigned from the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and said the report was finalised by Government appointees.


Many scientists names on that list do not agree with their findings, but their names stay included in the list.

The video I posted literally turns most of what you are posting on it's ear. You should really take the time to watch it with an open mind instead of holding on to a particular bias.

I used to think global warming was a man made problem just like you, and very strongly as well.......but it's not.

No, we should not ignore our pollution of the environment and forget about reducing green house gases as well as ALL other pollutants including fertilizers, fossil fuels, etc. etc.

I mean....have you stopped to think how small the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere really is? 0.054% and we contribute much, much, much less. It's like putting a drop of food coloring in a swimming pool. It will be in there, but it won't change the color of the water.

See the video, then let's talk.

Oh yeah....not to mention the IPCC is a UN organization, which lends it very little credibility in my book.
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev. Adam wrote:
I mean....have you stopped to think how small the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere really is? 0.054% and we contribute much, much, much less. It's like putting a drop of food coloring in a swimming pool. It will be in there, but it won't change the color of the water.

See the video, then let's talk.

Oh yeah....not to mention the IPCC is a UN organization, which lends it very little credibility in my book.


I can't watch the video because it uses a proprietary format that requires the use of a proprietary operating system. Do you have a copy of your video in an international standard?

CO2 is only one of the Greenhouse gases. The real danger is from methane hydrate.

Further, to use your swimming pool example, far less than a single drop of certain toxins or microorganisms placed in an Olympic size pool would be enough to kill dozens of adult humans.

The evidence on global climate change is overwhelming. Almost all of the scientists debating the issue are on either church or energy company payrolls (with a few on the payrolls of Canadian chemical companies).

Almost every scientist in the fields related to climate are convinced that humans are the cause of global climate change.

The debate at this point is over whether humans can mitigate the damage or whether run-away greenhouse effect will kill off all humans.
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the recent 40 year drop in temperatures and the previous predictions of a coming ice age? These definitely don't coincide with the global warming theory.

What about the medieval warm period? It was MUCH warmer than today...or the Holocene maximum during the bornze age?

Since the 19th century the earth's temp has only risen by 1/2 degree Celsius with most of the warming occurring before 1940 where a 40 year drop in temperatures began.

Here's a link to the most significant parts of the video on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4boaEbtjByU

Take a look.
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Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I would post this. This is a response to the youtube video above, and he says it well.

Quote:
The issue raised here is not anti-environmental. It's a perfect example of sensationalism. Air pollution and deforestation are yesterday's news, right? Yes, the burning of fossil fuels is a major environmental concern, but for different reasons. To solve a problem we have to truly understand it instead of pouring funding and research into what amounts to nothing but a trend that will soon be yesterday's news, perhaps pushing us even further from the issues.

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Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.
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prntrkmt
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev. Adam wrote:
What about the recent 40 year drop in temperatures and the previous predictions of a coming ice age? These definitely don't coincide with the global warming theory.


The term "global warming" refers to the total global average temperature. This term misled many laypersons to believe that the prediction was for warming temperatures everywhere, when in fact the effect is global climate change. Some places get warmer. Some places get colder. Some places get wetter. Many places get drier. Wind speeds increase. Storms increase.

The entire system is very complex. Hence the scientific term global climate change.

Have you looked at Dr. Mann's data? Do you dispute his data? Do you dispute his conclusions?
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Creeping Fascism of Global Warming Hysteria
Man-made orthodoxy is a dogma of coercion, bias, and junk science

Prison Planet | February 13, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

The hoax of the doctrine of man-made global warming that is being foisted upon the world by decree, and the junk science that is manipulated to support it, represents a creeping fascism whose agenda to stifle open debate betrays the fact that climate change hysteria is a farce intended to crush freedoms and further centralize global power.

In an interview with a Czech newspaper , Vaclav Klaus, the President of the Czech Republic blamed the "whip of political correctness" for preventing more scientists and statesmen from going public with their skepticism on man-made global warming. This is precisely what we have arrived at, in a bizarre vacuum of common sense and without any attribution, the establishment and the controlled left have managed to squash reasoned two-sided debate about global warming by coating their argument with the nebulous claim that expressing disagreement is somehow bigoted, backward and even racist.
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The very fact that the man-made advocates have to introduce such a far distant concept as race into a debate about scientific climate change makes it self-evident that their argument is inherently weak and vulnerable.


Read the rest of the article here: http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/global_warming_creeping_fascism_of_global_warming_hysteria.htm
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Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.
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Nachtschattenreich
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I´ve watched the "global warming" video already a while ago when I saw it linked on another website I´m contributing to, and my conclusion was this: We humans are not in control of the climate.

The problem in climate science at this point seems to be that it is ruled by groupthink and not open to fresh ideas. Scientists are there to make theories about causes and consequences, and they will probably have to continue to do so for a while, they may not come to any reliable final conclusion soon.

The point is however, decisions about the fossil resources of the planet will have to be made sooner, and no decision is a decision too.

Quote:
If this [hemp oil] is such a great thing, and much better than regular oil, why are we not doing it?


I think at its core this problem is a mental problem. In the practical application there may be differences between industrial and spiritual varieties of hemp, but in the understanding of people alienated from the Cannabis family there is not.

This is the single big issue that the Anslinger/Hearst/etc. conspiracy got exactly right: You can either have the entire basket of applications for the various Cannabis species, or you can displace them all from what is still calling itself civilisation. There is no middle ground on this, and if laws are tailored in a fashion to pretend there was one, there still isn´t. Either the whole thing is part of the culture, or not.

With this taken into account, changing the economy from fossil fuel to agricultural fuel is still a transition that will take its time. Phasing in a new technology and phasing out the old one while individuals continue to make their own decisions that will add up to general trends is a process with a lot of variables that influence each other, and not a centralised act by the stroke of a pen. The world mind is inertial, and new habits can only grow in freedom.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Call it what you want.
Blame it on what you will.
I have seen the dark clouds build, from a place upon the hill.


I kid you not. You can sit on the hill in the morning and watch the dark clouds appear below in the city, getting darker as the day progresses. My daughter lives just out of town and is angry that she drives into the grunge cloud when she needs to come to town. Most everyone that I know of that have been here since childhood have some sort of respiratory problems. The air has been a bit better since the nasty diesels are off the road.

Whether or not our emissions are causing world problems, I'd rather be able to breathe clean air until 'they' get it figured out. So, to make a long arguement short, lets just clean our air as much as possible! If our world is going to hell from some other reasons, at least we'll be able to breathe better for a while...maybe long enough to make it to some spaceship that can take us to some other world and see what sort of damage we can do there.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep, that's the problem with that whole global warming discussion world wide. I have noticed that it is deverting the attention away from the real issue that does cause suffering for every plant, animal and human and that's plain simple chemical pollution.

I don't give a damn if global warming is caused by CO2 emissions or not, I care about pesticides, chlorine gasses, CFK's and thousands of other chemicals that are blown into our air and earth in massive amounts and which kill our eco system and cause cancers and the dissapearance of animal and plant species at a rate of more than 100 different species every single day.

All that talk about CO2 emissions and the question if humans cause global warming is to steer people's minds away from how bad the industries are polluting this planet with all their other crap.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ferre wrote:
yep, that's the problem with that whole global warming discussion world wide. I have noticed that it is deverting the attention away from the real issue that does cause suffering for every plant, animal and human and that's plain simple chemical pollution.

I don't give a damn if global warming is caused by CO2 emissions or not, I care about pesticides, chlorine gasses, CFK's and thousands of other chemicals that are blown into our air and earth in massive amounts and which kill our eco system and cause cancers and the dissapearance of animal and plant species at a rate of more than 100 different species every single day.

All that talk about CO2 emissions and the question if humans cause global warming is to steer people's minds away from how bad the industries are polluting this planet with all their other crap.


I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ferre wrote:
I don't give a damn if global warming is caused by CO2 emissions or not, I care about pesticides, chlorine gasses, CFK's and thousands of other chemicals that are blown into our air and earth in massive amounts and which kill our eco system and cause cancers and the dissapearance of animal and plant species at a rate of more than 100 different species every single day.


I wonder how they will manage to grow the huge quantities of corn (or hemp) that will be needed to replace oil without resorting to pesticides to control disease in the mono-crops, or clear-cutting or taking land away from food production. The answer is they won't be able to, of course (in a sustainable, ecological way)...but they will anyway. If Monsanto can squeeze a few extra dimes out of our dying culture, nobody will care (except for freedom-hating lefties) as long as they can drive their Hummers.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, I'm soo much disgusted by the name Monsanto, it's getting unhealthy even to hear that name.
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