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prntrkmt
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:20 am    Post subject: holy days Reply with quote

One of the items in the Meyers Matrix is the requirement for holy days.

Well, I got holy days for you. 155 pages of them. With a lot more to come in the next few weeks.

Thousands of holy days, mostly from the Kemetic (ancient Egyptian) religion, but also from numerous other world religions, including Celtic Druidism, Asatru (Norse), Japanese, Hellenism (Greek), Wiccan, and many other religions. Even including some native Hawaiian holy days, with more to come.

There ought to be more than enough holy days for pretty much any cannabis religion to meet this requirement of the Meyers Matrix.

These are in version 4 of my book "Cannabis Witch Hunt", which you can download for free from http://www.prntrkmt.org/book/book.html -- the holy days calendar starts on page 344 (the total book is 1166 pages).

I will be adding thousands more holy days in the near future.

Hope this helps.
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David
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Brother Adam
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice work prntrkmt. I still must ask this question because it bothers me to the core.

Should we be finding ways to comply with the Meyer's matrix, as you call it, or should we instead be looking for ways to wipe out things like the Meyer's test?

In my experience, conformity only leads to more conformity.

I consider the Meyer's test to be like blasphemy. It's as if the courts are laughing at my god that I don't have.

I think anyone who is going to stand up and fight for our rights should also stand AGAINST the Meyer's test, but that's just my opinion.

Who's to say when you present your evidence to fit their model that they don't just rip it apart again and call it a "way of life" and not a "religiously held belief". That is what happened in the Meyer's case, correct?
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Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question

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Grannymouse
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Meyers Matrix, as far as i know, is only used by certain judicial districts. Many districts have deemed it bad law or some such thing. The odd thing, to me, is why in FEDERAL COURTS, that each district is 'allowed' to choose its own guidelines. I'm no legal expert, by any means, but shouldn't federal law be the same across the country?

I've responded to the meyer's matrix, mostly using the HOM YASHT as my guide, and have found that it fullfills the requirements quite well. Zoroastrianism has many 'earth based' factors. Druids and witches and pagans and such, can use the solstices, equinoxes, moon phases, as high holy days. You also would have holy seasons of spring, summer, autumn, winter, harvest, planting, etc.

In Zoroastrianism, we have especially holy times, such as funeral and grieving. These days last for at least three days.

We also have holy places. The EARTH is Haoma's mother. Haoma was born on a mountain and is also found in valleys and on the plains and near rivers, etc. Any place that Haoma is grown or praised is holy, especially one's home. (these are all places found mentioned in the Hom Yasht)

The Zoroastrians have calandars that they follow, which are totally based on 'the Creator' and the angels. There are many many holy days and seasons listed there, in fact, using this calandar based on the angels does make about any day 'holy'. Now, if i'm not mistaken, are not the days of the Gregorian calandar based on pagan gods? Sunne day, Moon day, etc? The months, too, with Juno as January? If it is your personal monastery's spritual ritual to greet the morning sun spirits with Haoma (or a flying ointment, whatever), then be sure to get that set in your mind and on paper. Zoroastrianism has holy times of the day, also, in the Gahs. There is the Baj at mealtime and during times of using the bathroom,even.

to use the Meyer's Matrix or not to use it? Well, if ya'll spent just a little time addressing the Meyer's matrix you will find thta you have tons of material to satisfy the requirements and it is my opinion that the courts would all stop using it, and will invent some other matirx to hurdle. All of it is distraction, and if you 'agree' to any of the b.s. and sign into it, that is all that they need, is for you to say that you are 'guilty' and agree to be put in jail. Ignore the distractions, and just put them to the test of proving a compelling interest. THEY provide up to six pounds a year for the few remaining govt-allowed medical marijuana patients. Do they ship it by mail? Do they allow this to be 'transported' on govt highways? Do they have it delivered by armoured vehicles and armed guards? What sort of 'handling and storage' requirements does the govt have for these patients? Oh for heavens' sakes. THese are some items that if you are defending yourself, you can use as 'discovery' items.

If there are no pagan sites that have addressed the meyer's matrix, and you feel that you NEED to address it, i am happy to help you in any spots that you find yourself 'stuck'. I believe that putting this into writing before you have to go to court, will be very helpful, whether or not your district uses it.
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prntrkmt
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev. Adam wrote:
Very nice work prntrkmt. I still must ask this question because it bothers me to the core.

Should we be finding ways to comply with the Meyer's matrix, as you call it, or should we instead be looking for ways to wipe out things like the Meyer's test?

<snip>

I consider the Meyer's test to be like blasphemy. It's as if the courts are laughing at my god that I don't have.

I think anyone who is going to stand up and fight for our rights should also stand AGAINST the Meyer's test, but that's just my opinion.

Who's to say when you present your evidence to fit their model that they don't just rip it apart again and call it a "way of life" and not a "religiously held belief". That is what happened in the Meyer's case, correct?


I understand the impulse to just blindly object to the Meyers Matrix. It goes against previous Supreme Court rulings and it is highly biased towards mainstream versions of Christianity. And ironically, even some very large mainstream versions of Christianity would have difficulty meeting the Meyers Matrix!

Those with a pure shamanic religion (including Wicca) are simply not going to be able to meet the requirements of the Meyers Matrix. And (agian ironically) the U.S. Supreme Court itself already ruled that Wicca is a religion and protected under federal law.

Those with archetype religions or shamanic-archetype religions, such as Celtic Druidism and Norse Asatru are also going to have difficulty meeting the requirements of the Meyers Matrix.

But there are real advantages in meeting the Meyers Matrix requirements head on. It is easier to win in court by meeting their convoluted procedures than it is to win by creating a new path. Judges tend to not like new paths at all.

There are real advantages to the Kemetic (ancient Egyptian) religion simply because by accident of time and location it has elements of all four major types of reliion and can actually address every single item in the Meyers Matrix other than the requirement for exclusivity.

The idea of my book is to give such overwhelming evidence that a judge will have to provide legal protection.

Remember that we aren't the first ones to face these struggles.

The Christian Scientists and the Jehovah's Witnesses had literally several dozen major court cases, several of which went to the U.S. Supreme Court, before they won the right to practice their religions. They won most of their court cases, but also lost some.

I've never seen Meyers' actual statement of religious beliefs, so I don't know how solid or flimsy it is.

It is obvious to me that the courts are (unreasonably) expecting extremely detailed and complete knowledge of cannabis religion. This is an unfair standard.

The vast majority of America's Christians could put together little about their own religion other than "Jesus was a good man who fought against corrupt leaders and do unto others as you would have them do onto you and go to church on Easter Sunday." And as many of our Christian friends here would point out, that summary of beliefs misses essential Christian doctrines (such as salvation) and includes blatant heresy.

We are being asked to meet a standard that almost all mainstream Christians would fail to meet, but they get to have their religion recognized without stumbling blocks such as the Meyers Matrix.

I know that I can create overwhelming evidence that Am Khent Kemeticism is a real religion that is thousands of years old (older than the first human writing) and is complete even to the standards of the Meyers Matrix. Hence my work on writing the book.

In a few more months (if I can get enough support to concentrate on writing), I should have several thousand pages that anyone's lawyer can present to the court and the court will have to recognize the religion.

I am convinced that we can win in court at their own game.
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prntrkmt
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
There are 365 days holy days in 'My Religion'. Very Happy


You may notice that there is at least one Kemetic (ancient Egyptian) holy day for each day of the year.

In ancient Egypt the number of holy days slowly grew over more than a thousand years until finally there was the idea that EVERY day is holy. Once that idea was achieved , there was a flood of new holy days, more than one for every day of the year.

The various holy days simply gave a structure and a reason to celebrate every single day. People tend to like structure and reasons and cause and effect and such. They like an orderly world they can understand.

In terms of U.S. court cases (and I know you are in Great Britain), the Meyers Matrix requires specific holy days. Well, I am providing everyone with a very large list of holy days.

People can pick one (or more) for every day -- or they can be more selective and pick the ones that resonate most with them. Whichever works for them individually.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grannymouse wrote:
The Meyers Matrix, as far as i know, is only used by certain judicial districts. Many districts have deemed it bad law or some such thing. The odd thing, to me, is why in FEDERAL COURTS, that each district is 'allowed' to choose its own guidelines. I'm no legal expert, by any means, but shouldn't federal law be the same across the country?


Each of the federal appeals courts are in charge of their own area of the country.

In general, once any federal appeals court makes a decision, all the other federal appeals courts will go along with it. Every once in a while the federal appeals courts will disagree. When they disagree with each other, the Supreme Court has to step in and make a decision.

I'm not defending that system, just pointing out how it works.

The Meyers Matrix (from the 10th District) is actually based on an earlier court case in the 3rd District called Africa. I have been trying to find a copy of that earlier decision, but unfortunately the only depositories I know of are for lawyers and charge ridiculous annual fees for access.

For now, prosecutors are being very successful in any federal court district by hauling out the Meyers Matrix and saying that a federal appeals court has already made a decision (even if they are in a different district).

If you are involved in a minor possession case, chances are that neither the prosecutor nor the judge knows a lot about this area of law and they will tend to let you go as long as you seem reasonably prepared (having a THC certificate will help a lot -- and a Pr Ntr Kmt certificate should help also -- the more written documentation you can provide, the better for these simple cases).

This is why Roger has had so much success with small possession cases (at least in the U.S.).

When you are caught growing or distributing to medical patients or have a large quantity in your possession, then the government will bring out the skilled lawyers and at that point you had probably better be prepared to see the Meyers Matrix and deal with it one way or another.
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Grannymouse
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a link with a draft of a response to the court and to 'Meyers'.
http://coc.enlightener.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=forum&board=const&op=display&num=96
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prntrkmt
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the Meyers Matrix. There is also a related 14 points of the IRS Church Qualification Guidelines.

The ULC fought court battles over this. Originally these were the IRS's Church Qualification Requirements. The ULC won a famous federal court case where the court ruled that the IRS requirements were unfair and illegal and the court also ruled that the ULC was legally a church. The IRS's response was to change their Requirements into Guidelines. They never actually got rid of them.

The ULC Seminary (a "branch" of the ULC) simply addressed the 14 IRS points and received IRS approval. I will quote their paperwork below. In some cases they didn't match the IRS guidelines, but instead of attacking the guidelines and getting into a big court battle with the IRS, they simply addressed the IRS's concerns.

Before their final approval, they had to write an additional 29 pages of answers to IRS questions, but instead of fighting and bickering with the IRS, they simply went along with the requests of the IRS and ended up getting their religion approved with very little hassle and no expensive court cases.

The ULC Seminary's document on 14 points:

1. Distinct legal existence. - The ULC Seminary was incorporated in 2004. We elected a board of directors at that time and have had regular meetings.
2. Recognized creed and form of worship. - We have a posted Declaration of Intent and Statement of Beliefs.
3. Definite and distinct ecclesiastical government. - As previously mentioned, we have a board of directors as well as a number of minister who serve as consultants in various areas where they hold expertise.
4. Formal code of doctrine and discipline. - Our doctrine is clear and concise: To Do That Which is Right. If any of our ministers choose to ignore that doctrine, they can be removed from membership in the Seminary.
5. Distinct religious history. - The denomination of ULC has been in recognized existence for approximately 45 years.
6. Membership not associated with any other church or denomination. - While we don't require that any of our ministers renounce membership in any other church to which they may belong, most of our ministers are exclusively members of the ULC Seminary, as well as members of the denomination. The Universal Life Church Seminary offers membership certificates, which shows their membership to the Seminary.
7. Organization of ordained ministers. - 99.9% of our congregation are ordained ministers. Occasionally, we have people who want to join in the fellowship of our congregation, but are not yet ready to take the step of becoming ordained ministers.
8. Ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed courses of studies. - We have an extensive Seminary program consisting of courses lasting a minimum of 4 months, with most being at least 5 or more. Those who complete the required number of course credits receive a special degree.
9. Literature of its own. - The ULC Seminary is a wealth of unique literature. Rev. Amy Long, the President of the Board, has authored two books: The Ultimate Wedding & Ceremony Workbook for the 'Planning-Impaired' (exclusively) and Weddings, Funerals and Rites of Passage (in conjunction with a number of other ministers.) The Seminary also has seminary courses that are unique and exclusive to our organization.
10. Established places of worship. - Our ministers have the option of fellowship in our forum to discuss our very large selection of frequently updated sermons. Our ministers have a choice of Christian Religious Sermons, Spiritual Sermons, & Pagan Sermons. We also offer poetry of our ministers to share with everyone. Our ministers congregate largely online in the forum, they also meet in the chat room, and we encourage our ministers to meet locally for fellowship.

11. Regular congregations. - Our ministers congregate online in the forum and in the chat room. They meet regularly, as our forum is available 24/7.

12. Regular religious services. - Our sermons are updated at least once a week and sometimes more often. Our ministers are encouraged, both on the site and through newsletters and our seminary mailings to submit sermons for online publication. We publish them on the website, as well as on our ULC blogs.

13. Sunday schools for religious instruction of the young. - We have a posted Sunday School program that is ever-changing and growing. We believe that parents are the best ones to instruct their young in their spiritual beliefs. However, we also feel that providing instructional material of a wide-variety of styles and beliefs may help parents or Sunday School teachers enhance their teaching abilities. We encourage our ministers to share their favorite Sunday School lessons to share with the congregation.
14. Schools for preparation of its ministers. - We have a new and ever-growing Seminary program that includes courses in different religions and belief systems. We feel it's essential that our Universal Life Church ministers are well-educated and well-rounded.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No...my point is I REFUSE to address the Meyer's matrix as it is now known.

I honestly find it quite offensive to be forced to spew my beliefs for any form of judgment.

I believe cannabis is sacred and is required for my physical, mental, and spiritual well being.

If I said "I believe in God and follow Jesus" nobody would bat an eye. Wine and crackers on the weekend would be cool.

However, when I say what I said above, somehow it needs proving.

If I joined the Rastafarians my cannabis use would be cool as a religious right, but because I view it differently (mainly minus a deity) I somehow need to explain it to people in order for it to be a viable belief and worthy of constitutional protection.

Pfft!
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“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”

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Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev Adam,
I completely agree that it is offensive.

But,
when your church and beliefs and the founders of the church are put on the line by the guys with the guns, it is quite possible to overcome the offensiveness, long enough to go to the bat for them.

A note about the Rastafarians, if i recall correctly, the govt has made a statement that it is not part of their beliefs that importing/transporting/flying with their sacrament is mandated by the religion. However, in Zoroastrianism, it is my interpretation of the Hom Yasht, that it IS mandated:

Wasting doth vanish from that house, and-with it foulness, whither in verity they bear thee, and where thy praise in truth is sung, the drink of Haoma, famed, health-bringing (as thou art). [(Pazand) to his village and abode they bear him.]

and

Haoma speaks his drinker thus: Childless be thou, shorn of offspring, evil-famed, and slander-followed, who holdest me from full outpouring, as a robber, skulls in-crushing. No head-smiter am I ever, holy Haoma, far from death.

This is interpretted as meaning that Haoma is to be transported to villages and abodes and that anyone who messes with this brings serious disaster upon himself. This is from his own 'sinful' actions, but not from any direct actions from the angel of Haoma. Haoma says that messing with the holiness of marijuana will result in 'skulls in-crushing' (stupidity? Loss of rationality?) but also mentions in the Hom Yahst, that righteous progeny will not come to those who abuse Haoma and the righeous followers of Haoma.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Offensive as it is, you need to stick a pitchfork into the shit in order to clean the barn.
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prntrkmt
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev. Adam wrote:
No...my point is I REFUSE to address the Meyer's matrix as it is now known.

I honestly find it quite offensive to be forced to spew my beliefs for any form of judgment.

I believe cannabis is sacred and is required for my physical, mental, and spiritual well being.

If I said "I believe in God and follow Jesus" nobody would bat an eye. Wine and crackers on the weekend would be cool.

However, when I say what I said above, somehow it needs proving.

If I joined the Rastafarians my cannabis use would be cool as a religious right, but because I view it differently (mainly minus a deity) I somehow need to explain it to people in order for it to be a viable belief and worthy of constitutional protection.

Pfft!


I agree that the entire thing is absurd and illegal. I have repeatedly stated that the Controlled Substances Act is illegal because it is establishment of religion. It is a Christian belief that Witchcraft (the use of the magickal properties of plants) is illegal.

Unfortunately, the courts are filled with people who are paid in money that includes an officially established written religious oath of office "In God We Trust", even though the U.S. Constituion specifically forbids religious oaths of office, specifically forbids the establishment of government religion, and specifically requires freedom of religion.

While their Meyers Matrix is clearly illegal, I think we can meet their illegal standard.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is definitely illegal. It tosses the burden of proof onto the defendant which goes against the core of what this country was built upon. For that reason alone any mention of it or the Andrew's test (yeah, don't forget there's more of em) should be stricken from our courts for good.

I'm tired of seeing the truth and real laws being written away by case law. If a law changes the original definitions of those set forth in the constitution it's illegal.

So, now we're trying to meet their illegal requirements for our own legality.

What a paradox.
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“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.”

-James Madison

Police officers acquitted for beating a 64 yr old man recently in New Orleans. In the words of their defense attorney "all he had to do was comply"....and they wouldn't have fractured his face.
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