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Does pot really need to be legal?
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RogerChristie
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 284
Location: Hilo, Kingdom of Hawai'i

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:24 am    Post subject: This way is THE way for me. Reply with quote

Dear Friends,

Aloha. Great discussion! Thanks to all the various points of view out there willing to express themselves.

I'm more convinced than ever that our THC Ministry method is THE way to go for us as individuals AND for the bigger picture, also. Here's the feeling of the US federal government to our injunction from their Motion to Dismiss page 13:

"any judicial attempt to carve out a religious exemption in this situation would lead to significant administrative problems for the probation office and open the door to a weed-like proliferation of claims for religious exemptions. Uneven enforcement of the marijuana laws would be difficult, if not impossible, to accomplish."

And on page 14, "It would be difficult to imagine the harm which would result if the criminal statutes against marihuana were nullified as to those who claim the right to possess and traffic in this drug for religious purposes. For all practical purposes the anti-marihuana laws would be meaningless, and enforcement impossible."

Well halle-freakin'-lu-jah! Isn't that evidence of the very BIG dream coming true? Through our advocacy of anchoring-in the religious use for ourselves and others we are inches away from nullifying the entire war on 'marihuana', according to the attorney for John Ashcroft hisself.

(By the way, I spoke with Ed White - the Attorney General's attorney - yesterday morning. We had a very nice, friendly conversation.)

This cannabis minister sure isn't 'sitting in the basement smoking a bong', or anything else. I know that I can speak for most others here, too. We're active! We're public when need be, however we're private with our sacrament, as good manners dictate.

Love and respect to one and all,

Roger
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Lilli
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 3371

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is wonderful Roger and great for the big picture. God Bless you and all the ministry. Thank you for putting your blood sweat and tears and finances into this minsitry,thank you for just being you.
Love Lilli
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Pateticus
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 102
Location: Cleveland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:35 am    Post subject: I was under the impression that... Reply with quote

Roger Christie's trial was over matters of sincerity. The US Government flat-out accused him of setting up the religion just so that he could smoke pot.

I know I read it somewhere...

Pateticus
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Pateticus
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 102
Location: Cleveland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:47 am    Post subject: Active, yes, but active in what way? Reply with quote

I mean...the whole reason I asked the question in the first place...does pot need to be legal?....is because I specifically wonder about involvement in politics making us look bad.

Look at it this way...

Everywhere you go in politics is a fight. It's specifically set up to keep people divided by convincing you that you need to fight a battle you don't really need to be fighting.

And what does fighting that battle keep you away from?

The most important things in your life. Your friends, your family, your congregation...

Getting into political battles gets you involved in the media which inevitably leads to scandal--especially in today's information generation.


So why not just back out of the media? back out of politics? secure yourself by immersing yourselves in the people around you? People you know will end up supporting you no matter what?

It seems like a much safer alternative to me.

Pateticus
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HvyFuel
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: ex-member

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In an ideal world Roger wins, the policing of cannabis becomes impossible, cannabis is removed from the statute books, and all those convicted of cannabis 'crimes' have their criminal records destroyed.

In this world Roger wins, the policing of cannabis becomes impossible, new legislation is enacted to give cannabis legal parity with alcohol, and the fight begins to clear people's criminal records.

Quote:
And what does fighting that battle keep you away from?

The most important things in your life. Your friends, your family, your congregation...


Dunno about you mate but all my friends, family, and congregation are right beside me in the battle. Most are asking why we're not fighting harder, as I ask myself every day.

Quote:
Roger Christie
I'm a cannabis minister AND I'm political, too. That fits my personality now and it works for me to be an 'activist minister'.


Couldn't have put it better.

Quote:
It seems like a much safer alternative to me.


Tell me Pateticus, would you like Roger to drop the injunction so the Herb doesn't get in the media? Maybe we should stop growing our Sacrament in case we upset anyone? Tell you what, how about we stop using cannabis as our Sacrament altogether?

Would that be safe enough for you officer?

peace
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HvyFuel
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: ex-member

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a campaign group in this country called Fathers For Justice, they want equal custody of children to be the legal starting point in custody arrangements after a divorce. I think they've been going for about five years using non-violent direct action, demonstrations, occupying high cranes, bridges, etc. You may have seen stories about our glorious leader being hit by a small packet of purple dyed flour in the House of Commons.

Well, they've just won a judicial review of the UK custody laws. By being in the media and getting the support of the public they've forced the government, not just to respond but, to be seen to respond.

And I must admit, I keep looking at cranes. Wink

peace Smile
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 2550
Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you make a very good point pateticus, and I can agree with most of it and anyone who chooses to just practise and enjoy their religion and spiriuality and have nothing to do with political things have my full blessing. This also contributes to the (our) cause in a very positive way.

Your message is very much what gandhi preached and it is a very peacefull approach, I like it and I can also understand others who shoose to be more active. All's well, it's all ok.
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HvyFuel
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: ex-member

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Ferre, I don't remember Gandhi preaching sitting back and doing nothing. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, Gandhi invented non-violent direct action.

peace Smile
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 2550
Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you read what pateticus is doing you will see he is doing the opposite of 'sitting back and doing nothing', he only has a different approach and actions that are not "political" or "activist" are just as good "actions" in my book.

As I mentioned, all's well, here is more information on how pateticus takes action btw:

http://www.thc-ministry.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2300

That's "non-violent direct action" in my book brother. Wink
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HvyFuel
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: ex-member

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In what way is that a protest against injustice? We obviously read different books.

peace Smile
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 2550
Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brother, may I remind you we are not an activist organisation but a ministry? If ministers shoose to minister in the first place instead of being activist in the first place I really do not think they deserve critics, sorry, tell me if I'm wrong.

pateticus wrote:
Future plans are also already in place to start taking donations of leaf and seed which I'm hoping to distribute to the terminally ill. I'm also in the process of looking for a commercial property with which to place a Sanctuary.


In my book, this is a great protest against injustice. It's only how you look at it.
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HvyFuel
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: ex-member

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they deserve critics when they tell Ministers to keep out of politics and the media.

Being a Minister that doesn't get involved in politics or challenge the laws is fine as long as you don't expect me to be one.

peace
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sibannac
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 447

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I strongly feel we have to work for the legalisation of the herb as that is the RIGHT thing to do remember.
DO WHAT IS RIGHT?
Why should we just be concerned about ourselves in our fight for justice thats not a good stand point for any organisation. What about our duty to get cannabis away from the dealer who will use peoples interest in the sacramental Herb to PUSH hard drugs onto the weak and vulnerable. (some of you have 1st hand experiences of this)
What about the medi user they have a right to use the HERB in the treatment of maladies, surely is it not RIGHT we fight for them as well??
Are we going to turn into a selfish i'm all right jack ministry like the governments we are fighting??
I for one WILL continue to fight for TOTAL LEGALISATION of CANNABIS.
Because it is RIGHT and PROPER to do so.
Is it the ministry's view that legalisation is wrong? or not worth the extra effort? If so i will be extremely disappointed and distressed to say the least and a little confused.
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Slide
Cannabis Sacrament Minister
Cannabis Sacrament Minister


Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HvyFuel wrote:
Being a Minister that doesn't get involved in politics or challenge the laws is fine as long as you don't expect me to be one.

peace


Agreed.

Rishi makes a good point on his website

http://www.eoni.com/~visionquest/

http://www.eoni.com/~visionquest/library/universalideal.html

Quote:


That wisdom tells those who would listen, that we are NOT separate from nature, we are a self-aware extension of it. It also tells us that there are no such thing as "separate issues" such as politics, social inequality, war or environmental issues that require "separate treatment". On the contrary, ALL ISSUES ARE SPIRITUAL CONCERNS, and it is upon this Cosmic Foundation that all other consideration are inherently built.
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Ferre
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
Cannabis Sacrament Minister.


Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 2550
Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HvyFuel wrote:
I think they deserve critics when they tell Ministers to keep out of politics and the media.

Being a Minister that doesn't get involved in politics or challenge the laws is fine as long as you don't expect me to be one.

peace


yes, I agree with you on this brother, but I did not see anyone doing this, what I see is another view on how members experience our ministry and some questions asked.

Everyone knows my personal stand on these issues, I'm not seperating my spiritual well being with social problems, I feel that Hemp/Cannabis should be as legal as any other crop or vegetable on this planet and am very active to do my part in the process but I will never judge anyone who chooses not to do this in the same way as I do.

What pateticus is trying to say, in my opinion, is that we can fight this battle on many fronts, gaining sympathy with people and making friends, and new members by activities that are not a "protest action" is very good PR if you ask me and we need that too and in this light I really appreciate this topic, it's something we sometimes forget, LOVE is very powerfull.
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