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Buddah & Cannabis ?
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viper
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:38 am    Post subject: Buddah & Cannabis ? Reply with quote

"You'll need to do better than a google search Viper.
Unless there is a specific verse in the Pali Cannon, or evidence from secular historical sources that directly have Siddartha down has saying "I took Cannabis as part of my practice" you're fighting a losing battle.

The first post also stated that Buddha used these six years prior to his enlightenment, and if you know your history you will know that Buddha actually rejected his past ascetecism in favour of "The Middle Way" deeming his austere and extreme practices to have been as bad as his previous hedonism in the palace."


Is he right ?

I know shamefully little abut Buddhism.
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David
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Viper,

I think we are missing the previous posts?
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viper
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes David, and no.

It is part of a discussion on another forum. All the relevant argument is contained above though.

So is he right or are there texts, and if so which ?
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Spin~ello
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aloha(face breath)

IMO
The Buddha stopped his asceticism ,but could not have gained enlightenment as quickly without it.
One must hit rock bottom to be able to experience the "high"est heavens.

Many sources state "one cannabis/hemp seed a day" during his asceticism.
I would like to think after his drink of milk that led to him being ridiculed by his ascetic brothers ,he culled himself from them & was free to eat as much
cannabis seed as he wanted.One must remember after enlightenment he lived on alms handed to him by the people to his outstretched palms.
[or on naturally provided foods](see below)
***Most Buddhist monks follow his ways today as they where modeled after him.A monk lives on either alms or food found.
Example a monk can eat a goat that has died of natural causes & found by the monk.Or if he stumbles upon a grove of hemp in full seed.Most do not kill, herd or farm.***

One of todays western modern life's abundances must remember that in some countries there is a thing known as natural WILD emergency food sources ,used if crops fail.
Banana was one to Hawaiians & just as hemp is one to this very day in the east.

I have provided my text ,that shows the context of the Q.
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Pantagruel
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buddism has been most inspiring to me, compared to other religions; this is for me more a philosophy or guideline for life.
Though when it comes to psychotropic substances and buddism also here we see a strong opposition toward this subject.
When I talk to people about buddism and this subject comes around the corner my question is: What was the buddha before he became buddha?
Wasn't he a hindu?, a saddhu? (shiva devotee) or even a shaman?
According to the encylopedia of psychotropic plants (Ratch) there are still today buddhist shamans found in Nepal that use cannabis and most suprising to me, sometimes spray cobra venom on the weed or put a dead cobra in the ground where the plants are growing.
Shamanism and religion are ignored by most; to me it seems logical that moses was a shaman and even more that the buddha was, though I am always willing to accept other views or change my own.

Stay open minded and ready to accept different ideas
Some; including some on this forum have their mind all shut (listen to zappa's the meek shall inherit the earth Wink )

Even them I wish all the best

PS Ascetisism and the use of psychotropics are different things I think
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pantagruel,

O true open minded one, before the Budda, the Budda was yet to exist!!!!

Did Budda practice Buddism or was Buddism born from Budda's practices.

I believe Budda lived as Budda lived.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks folks.

Interesting replys.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pantagruel wrote:
there are still today buddhist shamans found in Nepal that use cannabis and most suprising to me, sometimes spray cobra venom on the weed or put a dead cobra in the ground where the plants are growing.


Can you tell me more about this ?

What is the reasoning behind these actions ?

I can guess up to a point. The serpant and the tree of life have a long relationship.
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Brother Daniel
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Siblings,

I was just contemplating this the other day. My thoughts were, if Buddha were to have eaten a single hempseed a day, for 6 years, what type of frame did he have. I have not been much of an 'eater' for awhile, I do not like to take the time mainly. I am contemplating changing my diet to hempseed, I already drink water. I cannot help but wonder about the golden Buddha statues you see where he is around, what, 400 pounds? I don't believe that he was that big before his ascension, but does anyone know how big he really was?

Peace Be With You,
Brother Daniel
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the golden Buddha statues you are refering to sound like the chines version, that are based on and idea of and idea passed on oraly. the traditional Buddha, or Shakyamuni Buddha is the traditional representation, one of the most realistic portrayals of the fasting Buddha is a sculpture tittled "Emaciated Buddha" c. 2nd 3rd century, Kushan period from Gandhara. try looking this up if you want to see what people look like when they put their bodies through extreme fasting.

note. this extreme fasting was later rejected as being far to extreme a form acetescism. the Buddha taught the middle path was correct not over or under indulgence
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a picture I took a couple of years ago from a Buddha statue in a temple in Bangkok.



pretty skinny.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Middle Ground it is. Very Happy I like fruits and veggies.

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Spin~ello
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aloha every1

Pantagruel asked:
Quote:
What was the buddha before he became buddha?

He was a man named Siddhartha Gautama.
He later became known as Sakyamuni "Sage of the Sakyas, or Shakya (people)" [his family tribe/clan].(I do not believe that he was called Buddha ,in his day)

A Buddha is any being who has become fully awakened (enlightened), and has experienced Nirvana.Sakyamuni was not the first or last Buddha to become/blossom.

The word Buddha means "awakened, enlightened," as in one has acquired the keys to "absolute knowledge of all things".

I tend to use the word(s) in this way:
Budda = is the knowledge keys.(it is the absolute knowledge )
Buddha = is using the knowledge keys.(teaching/spreading/using it by one who has attained it)
Buddah = is receiving one or more knowledge key(s)or teachings.(learning the knowledge keys)

Examples:

I received some buddah from the Buddha Sakyamuni ,whom knows all budda.

Sakyamuni attained "Budda" ,he emanated & radiated "buddha" teachings & others recieved it as "buddah".

I think of it like this Budda is the flower bud.
(budd)Ha is the breath off of it.(breath out =ha)
(budd)Ah is the receiving of this breath.(breath in ah)

The Hawaiians used the word ha to = "breath of life"

The Hebrew tale of Abram & Sara(i).
She had no child ,Abram impregnated Sarai with one form(sperm) of the "breath of life" & she received it.
He then became Abra"HA"m & she sar"AH".
This is the origin of their name changes IMO.

Quote:
Wasn't he a hindu?

He was born @ Lumbini [today located in Nepal] & was the son of a King.
His tribe/clan was of the Vedic social hierarchy.Thus he was of Vedic period of Hinduism.It is important to note ,his teachings denounced the hierarchy/class system he was so highly born into.
Additionally on his path IMO he studied all teachings to find the keys to that bind them all together & lock them apart from each other.

Quote:
a saddhu? (shiva devotee) or even a shaman?

I would say that in his acetic years he learned sadhu type practices.
(sadhu is a common term for an ascetic or practitioner of yoga (yogi) who has given up pursuit of the goals of/in life.)
As for being a shaman IMO once he taught his peoples after his enlightenment he was shaman~like ,as his teachings are of the elimination of suffering.(I tend to think of a shaman as a one who is able to go beyond this plane to inflict suffering or heal suffering.)

As far as the snake stuff goes ,here is a story from my experience.
I harvested some buds & was trimming them in the back of a remote Hawaiian valley in the cloudy partial sun ,on rock precipice.I noticed a furry fat yellow bumble bee in the trimmed pile & continued 4 less than an hour when I discovered the bee was dead & it was completely a shell.It had no fluids in it what so ever.They had been sucked out into the cannabis @ a speed the amazed me.I took the cola it was sticking to & kept it separate from the rest(To remember which one it was).When I smoked that bud I can honestly say ,its "buzz" was much superior to all the rest that came from the same plant.I even did a test with another person to verify its potency.***one thing I must note is that the bee landed & died with no assistance from me & to take a bee or any other living thing to reenact what I have spoken of is IMO certain to bring one negative karma & an impure buzz as a result.***

David
Quote:
O true open minded one, before the Budda, the Budda was yet to exist!!!!
"the Budda/the absolute knowledge" existed long before Sakyamuni & other Buddha came before him.

Brother Daniel
I am happy to hear you are not going to live on hemp seed & water only.lol

Ferre
Mahalo/domo/thank you 4 sharing your picture.It is of very high resolution & large detailed size & I found it to be above in quality other pix I have seen of this statue.

I bid(offer)U all peace
_________________
My surname Spinello
means "jOINT of cannabis" in Italian.
JOINT as in anOINT ,appOINT & OINTment.

Check out my Hemperor & Hawaii themes for Firefox.

Pay heed,I plead,Plant the seed ,. 4 we all
need, the reed weed seed
to be freed, from greed and creeds!

I bid(offer)U peace
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Rev.B.S.Whitaker
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:19 am    Post subject: sadhu Reply with quote

good info on the buddha but your info on sadhu is not quite correct. not all follow shiva, their are two main sects. those that follow shiva and those that follow vishnu. Sadhus are not always yogis or yoginis in fact they very rarley are. they practice asanas early on in their devotion but do not make a regular practice of it, as they consider yoga to mild to be a real austeritie.
thier are many, many sects that have special practices. some wear only sackcloth,some smoke charas, some wear nothing, some must tend a fire their entire life, some deform and disfigure their arms. some never sit or laydown. some restrict their diet, some must live in a burial gorund. but they all try to reach the same goal of the most high, escaping samsara and reaching samadhi.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aloha B.S.Whitaker
I did not state all follow Shiva.I do admit my "1 sentence" description is lacking & weak though.

I personally comprehend Vishnu as the All-Pervading essence of all beings including Shiva.& that all that bind to sects ,are on the path to sect'ions & not to wholeness IMO.

Quote:
Sadhus are not always yogis or yoginis in fact they very rarley are.

I interpret what you state above ,to imply that not all do body posture yoga ,which is what most western people think of when they hear the word yoga.
Yoga = focusing on meditation as a path to self-knowledge and liberation.
Sanskrit word yoga is a derivation of Proto-Indo-European yugam, from a root yeug- (Sanskrit yuj-) meaning "to join" or "unite"; cognate to Latin iugum and modern English yoke.
One could be a paraplegic ,not able to move a muscle & still do yoga ,as it is of the mind.

You state they "rarely are" (I do not have their percentages nor the demographics you seem to draw from ) & you then state they do asanas(seat/sit posturing) early in their devotion
(as if most do not ever sit again).
You then state "what you think they consider" in their individual practice ,as if you know what most sadhu think.& you then state they consider yoga to mild to be a real austerity(self denial)[at the same time stating they start with it.]

I would guess most wear sackcloth or something not of fine linen/cloth.
I do know every picture of an Indian sadhu I have seen is of one "sitting" while puffing.I do know of tales of some that go nude and do strange twisting & pulling of the genitals & that one that tends a fire one often sits.

I have not ever herd of any that do not sit or lay down.
Could you please give me a link.
I would think 4 such a claim to be true(I am not saying it is not true) ,one would need to tie oneself to a tree or something of the sort during sleep.I would also think such a person is ignorant IMO to that fact that the tip of ones spine while sitting connects one to the earth uniting ones chakra to the earth(grounding one) where as ones feet have no chakra.Even if you can provide me with a link ,I would find this to be a sadhu impostor in my eyes to do such a thing IMO.

My comprehension is that a sudhu has a person in training to be a sudhu that receives all offerings such as food ,hash & opium 4 example ,as to take it from the offerer is to become contaminated by the offerers impurity &/or energies.So I interpret that to say that all sadhu have restrictions on their diets because of dependence on alms & personal choices of not eating some types of food.

I had not ever heard of the burial ground thing but it makes sense to me that some would.

I did not wish to start a debate as I am not an expert nor have I ever visited or met an Indian sudhu(& if I had I think that I would not be taught by one in words ,only by observance as they do not teach from my interpretations.)I do believe your info to be not quite up to perfection either.I did not use the word correct as to me that word implies right & wrong(I did not state false things IMO ,my original definition was lacking though.).I do state that some things you stated are not true documented facts & some of it was speculations stated as if they were facts.


I do IMO see sadhu to be in very sad state of consciousness.
I say this as I lived for 10 years with no roof (a few years in a cave),living on alms ,in seclusion & have hurt myself physically(by choice,starvation & sicknesses) many times to destroy the veil.(It is a path that works quicker than most ,but the pain involved is a sad state IMO & I wish pray & hope 4 a day when none seek ways like these anymore.)

I agree to disagree ,rather than spend many hours posting on a sketchy area such as what a sudhu is or is not.As I stated they do not write or talk to teach what they believe from my interpretations & each follow paths as different as snowflakes IMO.

I bid(offer)U peace & forgive me If I off~ended you as that is not my intent.
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My surname Spinello
means "jOINT of cannabis" in Italian.
JOINT as in anOINT ,appOINT & OINTment.

Check out my Hemperor & Hawaii themes for Firefox.

Pay heed,I plead,Plant the seed ,. 4 we all
need, the reed weed seed
to be freed, from greed and creeds!

I bid(offer)U peace
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